Lock rocks (are very strong)
Curse of weakness
Gate
They bring 3 unique things.
I recall some tiers where we would call raid nights if our second lock couldn’t make it cuz we needed 2 gates.
Gate is mandatory on some fights, more than grips.
1 Like
Isn’t insidious chill the same thing as curse of weakness? 20% reduced attack speed?
Yeah gate can be mandatory, somewhat helpful, or useless depending on the fight similar to mass grips. Gate probably a little more mandatory when fights like Ghuun existed.
I’m not opposed to DKs getting a raid buff btw or some other unique thing. Leech to me would be thematic.
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One is damage done, the other reduces damage taken. One is a debuff while the other is a buff in the players.
3 Likes
Give dk blood presence that would give 3% leech to everyone within 40y
Or frost presence for 3% damage reduction
Or unholy presence for 3% haste
6 Likes
I haven’t seen anyone mention that raid buffs, despite the name, also affects M+.
Unless a DPS DK is tuned 10% or more higher than all other DPS having something like mark of the wild or chaos brand will close that gap, and this is to say nothing of the defensive value of some buffs in an ever more defense oriented meta.
It hurts nothing to give DK a minor buff as they will already be in most raids as a tank and helps a lot of minor issues for DPS and M+ DKs. There is no reason I can see not to give us one.
7 Likes
No your argument is terrible just like your DK skills 
Let’s talk again after the end of the 1st raid tier in TWW and see how many DK’s are brought to raid.
Thank you! Being the one class that doesn’t bring a useful buff to a group will absolutely be a detriment when trying to get into a M+ group. Assuming dps is relatively balanced amongst classes, why would you not take the one that brings a nice bonus for the group?
This would get my vote as well. DKs are basically melee warlocks, so it would be logical that the group buffs are of a similar fashion. Warlocks bring healing through healthstones and DKs through leech. Makes total sense to me.
6 Likes
I think its a bad idea to lean into leach given how hard blizzard is pulling away from tertiary stats atm.
Id prefer them to lean towards a Will of the Necropolis type of effect for allies.
Some thing along the lines of while bellow 30% HP damage is reduced by 8%.
Not only would this be massively useful in all forms of group content it would also form a niche for DKs as a type of counter execute class that pairs really well with healers that needs time to bounce players back to safe health ranges.
2 Likes
That would be way too good and borderline OP in arena.
I think the best bet is just to have the static haste buff since that isn’t offered by anyone yet.
But maybe if it was a 4% damage reduction it would be a little more balanced instead of 8.
The difference is that Warlock presses one button and it happens. DKs have to stack the debuff on a target with Runic Power spenders, iirc.
I think the typical argument about this is that Gate is universally more useful/usable than grips. It’s not mandatory for every fight, but is useful for most fights, mandatory for some, and no other effect replicates its group-wide value.
?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/sargeras/Nerfd#difficulty=4&zone=31
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/sargeras/Nerfd#difficulty=4&partition=-1
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/sargeras/Nerfd#difficulty=4&zone=35
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/sargeras/Nerfd#difficulty=5&zone=35
My logs are better than yours… You need to get off your high horse and stop calling everyone bad.
What does skill have anything to do with your logic anyway? You’re just wrong so you throw insults. 
5 Likes
Yeah, their response to a pretty reasonable take from Gorkroth above was pure clown. “Lol imagine what ifs”, pretending DPS DK has never been in a bad or weak spot.
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The gatekeeping from people about dks getting a raid buff is unreal right now lol. Like people are actually angry. That person and many others are trying to vouge for the idea that because of either defensives or movement abilities we shouldnt get a raid buff… like they are at all correlated. And like their classes don’t as well have defensives and movement abilities.
My mind can’t even comprehend the push back IDK why people hate dks so much lol
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Because they’re mad that DPS DKs have been tuned well enough the past 3~ years to be one of the better DPS in the game and ignore all the tiers in the past 3 expansions where DPS DKs have been poor.
That’s all it is, envy.
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I can see 8% being a touch strong given that its DR at the most important health range but having it as low as 4% while Devo aura is 3% at all times would be way to low. I think it would need to be 6% minimum, but its not an idea I’m married to. I’d be fine with 2-3% haste.
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A lot of people have issues with the word need just being thrown around like its the end of DK if something isnt done.
What constitutes as a raid buff? If you can deal with a mechanic alone and allow the rest of the group to continue to do damage, wouldnt that be a type of raid buff?
What it seems like is people create these check boxes and if a box isnt ticked then “OMG THIS IS NEEDED OR DK IS DONE FOR!” Thats what people on here sound like to me and many others.
Would a raid buff be a benefit? No one is saying it wouldnt be. But what would it be? Haste doesnt fit the juggernaut outlook people have of the DK so thats out, a damage buff is out because "we dont need anymore % buffs keeping our ability baseline damage low. So what would it be?
So not true. Especially after rider was added. But if it wasn’t haste, I’d say 2% leech, crit damage, or even reduced magic damage by 2-3%. Or even a 3% magic damage bonus. (Not a debuff like chaos brand)
Unholy presence should increase you own damage taken so no-one uses it. Frost gang rise up!
If something like that isn’t present in a raid, or say 5/6 bosses don’t require a DK to counter that mechanic, people aren’t going to cost themselves a raid buff for that 1/6.
Theoretically it’d be fine if they baked an outright need, or at least desire, for a DK into most fights. Though it’s much easier to simply give the class a buff rather than design entire raids around a desire (not a necessity) for a DK to be in the raid team.
Feels like this class is becoming the new shaman. Horribly outdated kits, cooldowns that were good 10 years ago but have been power crept by new classes and other reworked builds for existing classes, lackluster PvP ability, etc.
3 Likes
Haste, or speeding up, doesnt fit with peoples idea that DK’s should be like Arthas in HoR. This never existed within DK ever so haste fits the class, but if people are going to push this thing then speed is out. People also complain about all these little % damage increases making ability base damage low, so adding to that just feeds into it.
It doesnt make sense of how peoples suggestions are all over the place which suggests its not a need, its just what people want because a check box isnt ticked.
Do you constantly change your roster during a raid? No. Not unless you are some world first group.
There are things coming into TWW, but I guess those dont count for some reason because… i dont know.