It’s spammable content, and by lockout I meant a gear lockout, not a total dungeon lockout. You already don’t get much of anything for doing a key over 10, people do it for fun, not for gear, but that doesn’t mean we should just throw mythic quality loot at everyone, especially when Blizzard isn’t balancing m+ around +20’s.
A lot of people, including Blizzard, care about mythic. Mythic takes a lot more effort than setting up a key group, but it’s tough to compare M+ to any difficulty of raiding because they’re completely different.
The majority of the people who play this game don’t care about pushing the highest level of keys. Most people don’t even have a 15 completed, so the lack of titanforging affects only the very few who try to push over a 15.
I feel like m+ needs to have its own set of gear, similar to what we saw with PvP gear before. “This item level increases by 15 ilvls in dungeons” or something like that. But even then, it’s difficult to balance m+ around higher keys because there are some classes who are just terrible at it and aren’t built for it.
It would be nice if Blizzard would stop jerking everyone around though. It seems every patch one community is upset about needing to engage in an activity that they do not wish to engage in.
One thing is for certain: Blizzard needs to realize that making one end game path have desirable rewards for another path is not a good way to increase engagement in all paths through cross pollination.
Well, the community has been upset since vanilla so no surprise there.
The only way PvP gear has ever been seperated from PvP is with a unique stat (resilliance and pvp power) or item level scaling. Both were criticized in their own way, not meaning they were bad but every system is criticized.
Mythic+ however is a different animal since its another flavor of PvE so it gets difficult to make it not work in raids outside of “only works in raids/dungeons” which is always a little jarring.
If they are intent on leaving the system as is, and titanforging is removed, i think they should add a currency starting at +11 and up.
Increasing keys scales the amount you receive in your weekly chest by 25% from the baseline of a +11 (or some other %, doesnt matter).
Only rewarded for TIMING a +11 or higher.
You buy an item that upgrades a dungeon piece of gear +15 item levels.
It needs to be set up so doing 11s and 12s would give like 1 token every 1.5 months to those doing 18s and 19s maybe an item each week.
Of course raid loggers will view this as another “forced grind” but…
If by screwed you mean people can’t grind a 15 minute dungeon at a chance to pull a slot machine and get some of the best gear in the game, then yes they are screwed…
You didn’t complete keystone master till BFA…so you don’t have close to enough experience to comment on high keys in my opinion…but who gives cares! We all pay to play the same game and all deserve to have a say.
Now if you’ll excuse me I’m off to McDonalds to get a 6 pack of nuggets. Hoping it will McForge this run into a 20 pack…fingers crossed!
The time it takes to make it valuable easily rivals and exceeds the amount of time it takes to raid. The hardest content in the game should reward the best gear. No matter if you’re raiding, doing M+, or doing PvP.
The issue is there is a complete lack of balancing gear after the expansion gets started. PvP gearing has been terrible and M+ has made Heroic raiding and lower less enjoyable if your only end goal is gear.
Yeah but raiding is not lucrative. 2% raid high end. M+ brings in a crap ton more money. Getting 20 people together to raid is the biggest challenge for most. And not everyone can spend 4 hours in an instance unless you can no life it
Next raid is a month or 2 tops out and they finally have 200 guilds that have beaten the last boss.
Why does it matter anyways what M+ loot gives not like it effects high end raiders to begin with.
Also M+ is significantly more difficult at scale. Raids are set, static. Doing a raid will never get more difficult doing a higher key = higher difficulty
Considering m+ is harder than heroic raids no. That is a joke. Lol
This thread has been derailed by trolls I think. Sorry op and everyone else that had good discussion points and suggestions but maybe we should start anew lol. I don’t think we are getting anywhere now. It’s turning into that blood elf thread
The rewards in mythic plus cap at +10 there really is no reason to do higher than a +10. Why would you even need to do a +15 or +20 key it doesn’t really get you anything better.
That’s the progression of mythic+. Just like for raiders it’s to kill the final boss on mythic.
The goal is to acquire gear to push into the highest keys you can. For everyone else, it’s just about hitting that +10 threshold and getting a piece.
If they don’t change the reward ranges you’ll be forced to do mythic raiding to compete on the mythic+ leaderboard against mythic raiders. Least in the old system you could keep up with a few lucky tf’s to some extent.
If + has a hard cap now with no way of advancing, then I don’t see how it’s really fair to expect a giant chunk of the wow community to mythic raid (supposedly) by force, when it was unacceptable for 1-2% of the community when they felt (supposedly) forced to farm keys.
Just have to wait and see what the changes are. and If it ends up going back to forcing people to nolife raids for 4-6 hours a night, then I suspect plenty will vote with their wallets.
The system wasn’t perfect by any means, but it allowed alternative progression for those that don’t want to raid. When you start catering to the smallest percentage of your gamers you’ll end up with something like wildstar.
No raider was ever forced to run keys, they chose to do it. Nobody has a gun to your head forcing you to do anything. But with it being flipped now, you’ll either choose to nolife raid for the best gear, or you’ll have to try and compete in the area you wish with gear nowhere near the power of a mythic raider.
They will be the best pvpers and mythic+ runners by default, which is what I suspect some of them might want. Bringing back raid or die won’t magically make the game better.
Who’s to say that they wont simply increase the item level of the weekly chest, to compensate for no longer having a guaranteed warforge. (while eliminating the chance for an absurdly high titanforge)
When you look at your highest key completed for the week, it tells you the minimum item level of your weekly chest; there’s no reason they can’t just leave that in place. In other words, a +10 still gives a 440 (or 8.3 equivalent), it’s just not warforged.
Because for the ones who complained the loudest, it wasn’t simply about the wf/tf itself. It was about people they thought were undeserving earning loot almost as good as theirs in a part of the game they feel is inferior.
If mythic+ remains near mythic raiding level of gear for chest rewards you should expect the backlash to continue. It wasn’t just solely about the wf/tf, it was about making sure those undeserving stay in their lane unless they wanna put in [insert random personal opinion on what qualifies as effort here] the work.
I just don’t ever see this nonsense ending without the absolute separation of the 3 endgames. Until then, those who feel like they’re gods gift to scripted gaming will continue to tell everyone else how they should be playing/enjoying their game.
The simplest solution is to have pvp, mythic and keys gear only work in their areas.
Just have the base starter gear for all 3 come from dungeons and the random battlegrounds for a starter set. It’s simple and keeps everyone from feeling supposedly forced to do things they don’t wanna do.
Wanna try a different progression path? start from the beginning and do it.
WF/TF and running 5 mans to gear for raid was the worst idea ever.