For sure for content with fixed difficulty once you outgear it you can need less people, but you don’t bring people in mythic raiding on progression to get carried unless youre masochist. Yes scaling in M+ makes it so the hardest difficulty that people will do can only be achieved that way. But there’s no new mechanics past a +10, you’re just refining. Learning some fights for mythic and executing them takes way much time and that’s not saying you have to handle 20+ people vs 5.
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Or rather than sitting on WF/TF/Corruptforge we could invent new systems or resurrect old ones for PvP and M+.
PvP just needs pvp stats back on the gear, plain and simple. Without resilience/PvP power. A full maxed out PvP gearset should equate to heroic raid gear. If you want Mythic level gear; you raid mythic or do extreme high M+.
M+ should have a bonus roll system, at +10 it’s capped at heroic raid, but you get 0-5 rolls a week (similar to coin odds) on what ever dungeon you complete at +15 and beyond that gives you a chance at a Mythic level raid piece. The higher M+ You complete over a +15 the previous week, the more rolls for mythic level gear you get for the subsequent week.
BAM you have gear progression for M+ players that rewards skill and not RNG. This also makes M+ have the same element of static RNG that raids have (fixed number of bosses per week, random based on a discrete loot table).
Like WF/TF is just very lazy game design.
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Catering to the .01%!
I said that it shouldn’t reward mythic ilvl pieces because it’s spammable. I didn’t say anything about it currently doing so…
Sky is falling much? This change affects everybody. Raiders gear through m+ just as much as you do, because it’s much more efficient with a guaranteed piece every week. We don’t just do a full clear week 1 and everyone gets loot, It’s much easier to fail a 10 key and get a free 440 piece for the week than it is to down a mythic boss undergeared.
Like I said, I don’t see anything wrong with rewarding people an extra piece through the weekly chest if they’re pushing higher keys, but it has to be on a weekly lockout and out of reach of players who don’t normally do keys.
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I have 0 issue with it going back to a 15 for the chest to be honest, as i feel 10 is to low at this point but i can’t control that part of it.
This is the part you’re not understanding, M+ is another form of challenging content as you go up in keys, you cannot lock it out because that would kill the entire community and also the MDI which makes them tons of money. If it’s giving heroic loot, who cares about Mythic then? People that raid mythic have the time to do so, people that do M+ do not have to do it certain days/times.
They are already bleeding subs, do you think it’s smart as a business perspective to kill something that not only keeps subs but also makes them tons of money in the MDI?
yep the gear cap will be 462-463 from the chest and they cant push higher keys unless they raid for the better gear.
Exactly this. SO basically if you don’t mythic raid, you’re at a huge disadvantage for pushing keys, so they def. will need to figure something out. I may personally go back into mythic raiding next expansion if i have the time but i def. can’t commit to that anymore, and if i can’t push keys because of gear restraint, really 0 reason to log on anymore.
blizzard is now forcing m+ players to raid to get gear to m+.kind of like how they are forcing pvpers to pve to get gear.
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You poor poor soul
They don’t. They expect you to clear a +10. The option to push keys higher and higher is just that: an option. The additional rewards are minimal, and the design clearly informs us that it is not required of the player.
If you choose to push +20’s that is a choice you made, not a gameplay requirement Blizzard put in front of you. Mythic+ scales upwards to create a challenge for people willing to attempt it. It scales endlessly. No matter how they present us with gear you will eventually not be able to progress further. It doesn’t matter if that is +15, +20, or +100.
The entire point of the capped item level is to pivot the challenge from relying on gear to relying on player/group skill instead. You are not supposed to be able to push M+ endlessly.
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It’s a safe guess to say the weekly chest will guarantee high tier corruption.
Why is it that dedicated raiders want raiding to be the only meaningful path of high end character progression? When you’re finished your scheduled raid times don’t you want to meaningfully engage in other activities and progress your character?
WoW is already filled with activities that become pointless very quickly after reaching end game, it would be a shame to add another to the list.
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rng on top of rng.
thats how it always was until what?..m+
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Pretty sure a lot of the feedback is that raid logging is the preferred method.
Everything else is all “forced grind”
Its also hailed as one of the perks on classic.
Identify BiS, raid log to get it (later raids, phase 1 had alot of dungeon spam).
Then you are done.
Why not just make M+ have a lock out like raids do weekly. That way progression of gear can’t be abused by farmers and keep the ilvl the same as mythic raid after a certain key? Something like Normal raid 1-5, Heroic 6-10, Mythic 11+. 1 item per week isn’t going to kill anyone.
Progression over time allows better rewards that cap at Mythic. Players have to keep pushing to get those mythic rewards and by week 3 or so you could technically start seeing it. No one gets left out if you work to reach that point and progression continues for those that want to keep trying. Make rewards for titles and tmogs for higher points like 15, 20 and so on. Makes sense to me at least.
Pushing them endlessly isn’t the point. Losing the ability to push them as far as you currently can when you gear solely through m+ is.
Example. We just did some 17s last night, that I tanked on this character that has literally never set foot in the current raid on any difficulty. I would like to continue to be able to push without being forced to tank mythic raids.
I already raid mythic on my mage. Raid tanking is boring and I don’t want to do it.
They need to take a look at Mythic +'s reward system since they’re removing titanforging. Perhaps allow it to scale up to +15? But then we’d have a repeatable source of near mythic raid loot… which isn’t a good thing. Currently it’s heroic level with a chance at a titanforge.
I am curious to see how they handle it but I can’t see them cutting it off like this considering how hard they’ve pushed m+.
For the game’s entire lifespan people who don’t enjoy raiding have wanted other ways to progress their characters outside of raiding. Usually the raid community shouts it down.
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So raiders don’t want to feel forced to engage in activities that they don’t enjoy to get gear that is optimal for what they do enjoy. Interesting…
honestly it’s too early to say at this point. we don’t know for sure what the ilvl cap from keys is going to be. we know what it is right now, but until more features get added to the PTR we won’t really know the results.
The irony is delicious.
We have 3 main endgame paths.
Raiding
Mythic+
PvP
A lot of players want the optimum gear progression path to be in their swim lane. Anything desirable in another area is “forced”
Others want cross pollination to reap rewards.
Others dont like strange “only works in certain area” gimmicks on all the gear.
So we go in circles.
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