The whole gearing system is awful currently. Can’t even reliably get gear from normal dungeons.
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The difference in stamina between 460 gear and 475 gear will be huge.
I’m not sure if you are willingly missing the point or just thic.
In context: average hp at 430 ilvl is around 300k iirc. Average hp at 445 is around 350k.
THAT is the difference I’m talking about. The brick wall will be based on that.
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^ Some good points I forgot to mention, +1
“Gear doesn’t matter” is a lie, gear absolutely matters 
I SERIOUSLY doubt the twitch “high-end” M+ streamers I follow/watch would be able to do the +23/+24 keys they run in 425-430 gear… let’s be honest, let’s not kid ourselves here guys 
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You’re assuming they’re not smart enough to keep it tuned to the ilevel you’ll be receiving. Perhaps not. Though I’m going to hope that they will, because it should be tuned to the ilevel that you get from that content.
And don’t insult me again like that. I simply gave you a counter point, I didn’t act like a jerk.
You do realise that m+ scaling is a flat percebtage based on key level right?
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One which can be adjusted and tuned to the gear you receive from it. It’s not as if they can’t tweak things. Whether they actually do or not is the issue.
Is this how you play the game, just running raids over and over?
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I remember at the start of BfA I was going to run heroic dungeons. Then I saw heroics were giving gear that was under the ilvl of everything I already had from world quests. Made no sense.
mythic raider here. have cutting edge jaina.
but I also push m+.
not really excited about dungeons becoming irrelevant content to be honest.
will probably still be good for alts but thats about it.
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Why do people crap on others who do other forms of content in this game? Raiders need gear too, dps/heal checks are very tight, and raiding requires far more organization than doing keys.
M+ is spammable and shouldn’t reward mythic pieces on a non-lockout.
With that being said, I don’t see why they can’t somehow increase the amount of 440 gear you get from the weekly chest if you’re pushing higher keys. Maybe add another form of Residuum that allows you to purchase another 440 piece roll.
Actually this is an even better idea!!! ^^^
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Ok you don’t get it.
So at 10+ difficulty everything has 114% increased damage and hp compared to mythic 0 (not counting fort or tyrannical).
At 15+ it’s an increase of 245%.
Now lets take an unavoidable mechanic like conduction from the first boss on ToS.
In m0 it does 60k damage.
On m10 it does around 126k damage. Painful, but not something that requires personals if your healer is paying anything like attention.
On m15 its around 250k. Now thats starting to get pretty god damn scary.
Are you starting to see what I’m talking about when I say that not having just the HP from high ilvl gear is going to make some bosses completely impossible at a certain point?
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I wouldn’t mind high M+ keys, say 15+, rewarding mythic level gear… so long as a lockout system was placed on M+ so that raiders don’t feel as strongly that they have to spam M+ all day, all week to keep up. Say, something like every 5 levels of M+ have a lockout per dungeon. You do a +2 Freehold, you’re locked to +1 to +4 Freehold. You do +5 Freehold, you’re locked to +5 to +9 Freehold, and so on.
It’s not even remotely fair that M+ should reward the highest level of gear with absolutely no lockout like raids have.
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I personally dont think its fair that a faceroll boss like mythic sivarra has higher gear rewards than 15+ Kings rest on tyrannical week, one is objectively harder than the other.
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But Sivarra is only one boss in an entire raid, just like Kings’ Rest is just one dungeon in a large set of dungeons.
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^ this is the crux of the matter right here
From the looks of this new/upcoming replacement system, there won’t be much point in running M+ dungeons in 8.3 outside of once per week for the weekly chest or just farming io score.
Because you will no longer be able to get good gear from the M+ runs themselves in 8.3 (minus the one-time weekly chest), I’m guessing M+ participation will drop off considerably. I bet a lot of the “mainly” M+ players either just log off/unsub, or swap over to Classic to pass the time until 9.0
Actually, I do get it. What you’re not getting is that they can adjust those percentages to ensure that the gear you are getting isn’t insufficient for the mechanics and HP.
The trick is getting them to pay attention to the issue and actually do it.
yes. titanforging and warforging will be capped below the ilvl of the next raid, so it will be equivalent to heroic raid gear no matter how high you clear keys. mythic raid will drop basiline gear higher than M+ gear can forge, and then that raid gear will get corruption procs on top of that.
if there’s no extra mechanic added to M+, then M+ basically caps out where it is now and will be effectively dead as a means of progression.
Let’s not pretend the people doing anything over, let’s say +13 are anything but a tiny fraction of the community participating in Mythic+. I understand the frustration, but I also feel like some of you people really high up there in the Mythic+ world fail to notice that you’re essentially playing your own little game within a game while ignoring everything else.
FWIW I wouldn’t mind M+ giving Mythic Raid level rewards if it scaled up to +15 (minimum, higher would be fine too tbh. 15 is what Heroic raid prog feels like to me, but I understand it depends on the group).
But if we’re leaving +10 as the standard for a soft gear cap, yeah, it doesn’t need to be rewarding Mythic levels of loot, even on a weekly lockout.
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that’s normally fine. those people weren’t at +13 before 8.2 increased the ilvl cap from M+, allowing them to use the chest drops to push a few keys higher.
the way things are looking, that’s where they’ll be effectively stuck, dead in the water, if no changes are made from what’s been showcased so far with the new system.
There will for those who don’t raid.
Yes you will. It just won’t forge like you’re used to. But for those that aren’t progression raiders, it’ll be just fine.
While I do understand the issues for those running at the highest keys, I feel that issue can also be resolved if Blizz just pays some damn attention for once and makes sure to tweak the percentages for the damage output you’ll see.
So the question of concern is mostly for high end keys and whether or not Blizz can deal with those problems.
Either that or their theory may be that the highest keys are being run by raiders, so it’s not an issue. I’m not saying it’s a correct theory, but it may be theirs.