So, a static world forever...

10/04/2018 05:28 PMPosted by Piddy
How does this relate to Classic? Classic won't be going anywhere.
There will come a time when you will be sitting there in your capital, in your shiny gear, bouncing or sitting around, with nothing to do. Yes, even in vanilla you can run out of content.

...

Without additional content, the majority of the people will move on, your guild will die, and you'll be sitting there in front of your PC, a single tear running down the side of your cheek, wishing Vanilla would go on.

But they won't "run out of content" because people are running off to "fresh servers" (at least not fresh Blizzard servers), they're leaving because they're simply sick of the game.

See, the beauty of a static server is that -- it's static! There's no progression! If you get there day one or day 1000, it's the same server (save for having a more mature economy).

So, you're not missing anything. If you like leveling Dwarves and running through instances, and what not -- you can do that. If other folks like doing that, you can group with them.

If there's no one else in the game, you can still level your characters. Harder to do group content, but, c'est la vie. Organize a group on the forums. Folks will organically migrate to the servers with the people.

"Hi I just rolled on Fizzbang server, and there's no one here!" "Yea, Fizzbang has been dead for a year, you should re-roll on Gogglesprocket, we have a great community!"

The problem with progression and the "fresh server" concept is simply that, there's always this drive to race through the current server and then jump to another. Or, worse, "well, the new server lit up, and everyone left, so I may as well quit."

Without progression, you don't have events like that. People will leave when they're done, not because of something shiny offering them the same thing.

Progression kills Classic, since people will always be looking for what's new, what's next, "I'll just wait for the next patch." But static Classic is static. No impetus to leave or wait. It just is, an open book to browse. Not a Part 1. You want to see the rest? WoW is over there.

But see, there will be new 13 and 14 year old kids every day that have NEVER played on "Classic". They may like WoW, they may be sick of WoW, but then they'll try Classic -- and off they go! Because Classic is still there in all its Classic glory.

Did you know the people still buy and play "Monopoly"?

WoW is the best advertisement for Classic. Not because one is better than the other, just simply that it exists. Every time a player launches WoW, there's going to be a Classic button staring at them. In a few mouse clicks, they be in Classic doing Classic things.

Classic will be a playable museum. Cheap enough for Blizzard to keep the lights on indefinitely. People will ebb and flow, and the communities will self organize organically.

Classic won't need anything.


You, sir and/or madam, are a flippin' genius. Have a like.
10/04/2018 05:28 PMPosted by Piddy
How does this relate to Classic? Classic won't be going anywhere.
There will come a time when you will be sitting there in your capital, in your shiny gear, bouncing or sitting around, with nothing to do. Yes, even in vanilla you can run out of content.

...

Without additional content, the majority of the people will move on, your guild will die, and you'll be sitting there in front of your PC, a single tear running down the side of your cheek, wishing Vanilla would go on.

But they won't "run out of content" because people are running off to "fresh servers" (at least not fresh Blizzard servers), they're leaving because they're simply sick of the game.

See, the beauty of a static server is that -- it's static! There's no progression! If you get there day one or day 1000, it's the same server (save for having a more mature economy).

So, you're not missing anything. If you like leveling Dwarves and running through instances, and what not -- you can do that. If other folks like doing that, you can group with them.

If there's no one else in the game, you can still level your characters. Harder to do group content, but, c'est la vie. Organize a group on the forums. Folks will organically migrate to the servers with the people.

"Hi I just rolled on Fizzbang server, and there's no one here!" "Yea, Fizzbang has been dead for a year, you should re-roll on Gogglesprocket, we have a great community!"

The problem with progression and the "fresh server" concept is simply that, there's always this drive to race through the current server and then jump to another. Or, worse, "well, the new server lit up, and everyone left, so I may as well quit."

Without progression, you don't have events like that. People will leave when they're done, not because of something shiny offering them the same thing.

Progression kills Classic, since people will always be looking for what's new, what's next, "I'll just wait for the next patch." But static Classic is static. No impetus to leave or wait. It just is, an open book to browse. Not a Part 1. You want to see the rest? WoW is over there.

But see, there will be new 13 and 14 year old kids every day that have NEVER played on "Classic". They may like WoW, they may be sick of WoW, but then they'll try Classic -- and off they go! Because Classic is still there in all its Classic glory.

Did you know the people still buy and play "Monopoly"?

WoW is the best advertisement for Classic. Not because one is better than the other, just simply that it exists. Every time a player launches WoW, there's going to be a Classic button staring at them. In a few mouse clicks, they be in Classic doing Classic things.

Classic will be a playable museum. Cheap enough for Blizzard to keep the lights on indefinitely. People will ebb and flow, and the communities will self organize organically.

Classic won't need anything.


I'm all for classic staying static even after it starts to slow down.

But, I have an honest question. If classic is a massive success and brings back a LOT of players and classic gets to that point where it starts to slow down. Do you guys really hate the idea of moving onto TBC? Honestly I believe TBC and arguably even wrath deserves a another time in the spotlight just as much as vanilla. I think this would be just as big of a move for classic as the announcement for classic itself.
Classic staying static (or starting with all content released) wouldn't keep people subbed for long. Blizzard is in this to make money.
10/04/2018 11:47 AMPosted by Mordegast
I'm not speaking of the few of us who have downs syndrome and can play whack a mole or grind boars for 6 years straight, while laughing about seeing the boars get slaughtered.

Every single shred of respect your arguments and proposal could have garnered were utterly thrown out the window with this paragraph.

Why can't people hold a rational, reasonable debate or discussion without stooping to comments like this?
Alt
Problem Solved
You're welcome
The designers of SWTOR decided that they didn't need to focus on providing progression for their max level characters because players could just reroll an alt an experience the story again from a different perspective. That worked out well for them.
"Rose tinted glasses" is the new "slap in the face"
10/04/2018 02:52 PMPosted by Åpocalypse

10/04/2018 02:25 PMPosted by Dealloc
Mmm... Nope.

Forced server resets are the worst idea since the Nintendo Virtual Boy.


An idea so bad it's only exceeded in pure terribleness by the moronic assumption that a stagnate server will function long term, when all evidence from both retail and Pservers proves the contrary.


You don't cure a headache by cutting your head off.

Stagnation is imminent, sure. Eventually populations will drop significantly. But you'll always have players who will stick around. Always. All you need is 2,000+ players. I promise you there will be at least that many who will be playing on the same server for decades.

You're looking at vanilla from a PvE perspective, which is fine. I get it. That's what most people play the game for. And from a PvE perspective you'll eventually want more content. That's where optional transfers to BC servers and beyond would come in. That's where the occasional fresh server would come in. But there's never a need to force that on everyone.

Whether you understand it or not there are those of use who do actually want a static server that never changes. I believe for most of us it has to do with PvP. PvP never gets stagnant. We don't need content updates for PvP and updates actually are more likely to ruin PvP than anything else.

Ever since Cataclysm there has been one thing that has kept me playing WoW. Twinking. PvP twinking. Spamming battlegrounds. I've been doing the same thing since Cataclysm. Haven't payed one lick of attention to current WoW content since Wrath of The Lich King. The only reason I hit max level anymore is to support my twinks. Twinking is so appealing to me because I grind for gear once and I'm done. Then I can run battlegrounds with BiS gear until hell freezes over. That's what I enjoy.

Now you see, a static vanilla server offers me the ultimate twinking experience. A level 60 twink. I'll never have to worry about new content trivializing my gear. I won't have to level up every two years. I won't have to worry about stat squishes ruining my gear. None of that. And I'll be able to PvP out in the world without having to worry about people flying away because they won't have flying mounts.
10/04/2018 05:28 PMPosted by Piddy
...
But they won't "run out of content" because people are running off to "fresh servers" (at least not fresh Blizzard servers), they're leaving because they're simply sick of the game.

See, the beauty of a static server is that -- it's static! There's no progression! If you get there day one or day 1000, it's the same server (save for having a more mature economy).

So, you're not missing anything. If you like leveling Dwarves and running through instances, and what not -- you can do that. If other folks like doing that, you can group with them.

If there's no one else in the game, you can still level your characters. Harder to do group content, but, c'est la vie. Organize a group on the forums. Folks will organically migrate to the servers with the people.

"Hi I just rolled on Fizzbang server, and there's no one here!" "Yea, Fizzbang has been dead for a year, you should re-roll on Gogglesprocket, we have a great community!"

The problem with progression and the "fresh server" concept is simply that, there's always this drive to race through the current server and then jump to another. Or, worse, "well, the new server lit up, and everyone left, so I may as well quit."

Without progression, you don't have events like that. People will leave when they're done, not because of something shiny offering them the same thing.

Progression kills Classic, since people will always be looking for what's new, what's next, "I'll just wait for the next patch." But static Classic is static. No impetus to leave or wait. It just is, an open book to browse. Not a Part 1. You want to see the rest? WoW is over there.

But see, there will be new 13 and 14 year old kids every day that have NEVER played on "Classic". They may like WoW, they may be sick of WoW, but then they'll try Classic -- and off they go! Because Classic is still there in all its Classic glory.

Did you know the people still buy and play "Monopoly"?

WoW is the best advertisement for Classic. Not because one is better than the other, just simply that it exists. Every time a player launches WoW, there's going to be a Classic button staring at them. In a few mouse clicks, they be in Classic doing Classic things.

Classic will be a playable museum. Cheap enough for Blizzard to keep the lights on indefinitely. People will ebb and flow, and the communities will self organize organically.

Classic won't need anything.


I'm all for classic staying static even after it starts to slow down.

But, I have an honest question. If classic is a massive success and brings back a LOT of players and classic gets to that point where it starts to slow down. Do you guys really hate the idea of moving onto TBC? Honestly I believe TBC and arguably even wrath deserves a another time in the spotlight just as much as vanilla. I think this would be just as big of a move for classic as the announcement for classic itself.
Adding a TBC server is not the same as changing Vanilla and adding new raids and dungeons. An -optional- TBC server, while I think won't ever happen, is fine. I can hardly say otherwise...that would make me as bad as a Wall of No troll.
Classic content was a lot longer lived. Leveling and prepping for raids takes much more effort and there are no catch up mechanics. Blizzard themselves have cited on several occasions just how few people even reached 60 before BC, let alone saw or completed any raids. For people not playing it like a job, the static world is still going to 'keep' for a very long time.
Blizzard is a company, companies do things to make money.

They have the data from their subscription numbers when the last tier of content is cleared and players unsub while waiting for the next expansion. They know what happens, they know what will happen if the classic wow server sits at naxx forever.

It may be fun for the poster a few posts above me to log into his 60 on a dead server, but blizzard has data that shows them that wont make the investment in classic pay off.

Blizzard can tell us till they are blue in the face that they are doing this to preserver the game yadda yadda yadda. They are doing all that, but only if it makes financial sense for them to do so.

They are not in this to preserve vanilla wow while losing money doing so.
People ditch private servers because they are unreliable and usually run into issues with GM/admin abuse or some sort of scandal. No point in investing a bunch of time into a character only to have it crash and burn do to issues with administrator or rumors of one only for people to jump ship to the new FotM server. I don't think its fair to assume the same will happen with official server as people can rely on their character being there the next day and not at risk of disappearing randomly.
10/05/2018 07:45 AMPosted by Diggitydave
The designers of SWTOR decided that they didn't need to focus on providing progression for their max level characters because players could just reroll an alt an experience the story again from a different perspective. That worked out well for them.


That loud, rushing noise you hear is the obvious passing over your head.
10/04/2018 11:47 AMPosted by Mordegast
Perhaps you didn't play Vanilla, but played BC or Wrath.
I want you to try to remember a time, without the rose colored glasses, a time when ICC was out for what seemed like forever. Perhaps a time when BT, SCC, Any content really, had been out for a long period of time without new content.


I don't really care about raiding anymore. Spent most of BC and ICC not raiding much at all.
I don't think ICC was out long enough. Hell, I still run ICC now on private servers. Expansions easily could've been twice as long rather than this overhaul every 2 years crap. I can't wait to be able to play a game without it changing constantly.
...

I'm all for classic staying static even after it starts to slow down.

But, I have an honest question. If classic is a massive success and brings back a LOT of players and classic gets to that point where it starts to slow down. Do you guys really hate the idea of moving onto TBC? Honestly I believe TBC and arguably even wrath deserves a another time in the spotlight just as much as vanilla. I think this would be just as big of a move for classic as the announcement for classic itself.
Adding a TBC server is not the same as changing Vanilla and adding new raids and dungeons. An -optional- TBC server, while I think won't ever happen, is fine. I can hardly say otherwise...that would make me as bad as a Wall of No troll.


I completely agree. As for changing vanilla by adding updates later on down the line honestly I am sort of torn. On one hand I believe vanilla in itself needs to be preserved because it was a masterpiece.

But on the other hand we all know at some point it will become stagnant and I love the way vanillas bones and structure was so much I would LIKE to see what it would look like if they continued with this game style. I don't know what they I think they should do after classic but personally I would first like to see them add TBC and later WotLK. And if that absolutely isnt happening I would honestly think I would like to see kara crypts and such with the vanilla structure still in tact. I will settle personally for just a static vanilla but I know I would end up quitting after so long. Which is fine just my opinion though.
I think the only logical option, if new content is desired, is to open up TBC servers under the same server name, and only allowing copies of characters from the same Classic server name.

This would hopefully create a true TBC experience for a single server.
10/05/2018 07:22 AMPosted by Heyyoua
I'm all for classic staying static even after it starts to slow down.

But, I have an honest question. If classic is a massive success and brings back a LOT of players and classic gets to that point where it starts to slow down. Do you guys really hate the idea of moving onto TBC? Honestly I believe TBC and arguably even wrath deserves a another time in the spotlight just as much as vanilla. I think this would be just as big of a move for classic as the announcement for classic itself.


Yes, I would hate the idea of moving onto TBC.

As much as I like TBC, moving the server to the TBC era would defeat the whole purpose of vanilla Classic WoW.

TBC trivializes lvl 60 content, TBC makes lvling faster than in vanilla, TBC has no 40-man raids.

I would be pretty happy to see a TBC legacy server alongside a vanilla legacy server. In fact, I'd probs spend half my WoW time in Classic and the other half in TBC... but replacing vanilla with TBC is not something I'd like to happen.

I believe it's not on Blizzard's interests either.

The vanilla community is significant, significant enough for Blizzard to yield to the idea of vanilla servers. Should they move the vanilla server to TBC, they'd bring back TBC community but would lose a good deal of the vanilla one.

I think that, if Blizz thinks the TBC playerbase is significant enough to make a profit of, then they will probs create a TBC server.
10/05/2018 09:38 AMPosted by Asdomeus
10/05/2018 07:22 AMPosted by Heyyoua
I'm all for classic staying static even after it starts to slow down.

But, I have an honest question. If classic is a massive success and brings back a LOT of players and classic gets to that point where it starts to slow down. Do you guys really hate the idea of moving onto TBC? Honestly I believe TBC and arguably even wrath deserves a another time in the spotlight just as much as vanilla. I think this would be just as big of a move for classic as the announcement for classic itself.


Yes, I would hate the idea of moving onto TBC.

As much as I like TBC, moving the server to the TBC era would defeat the whole purpose of vanilla Classic WoW.

TBC trivializes lvl 60 content, TBC makes lvling faster than in vanilla, TBC has no 40-man raids.

I would be pretty happy to see a TBC legacy server alongside a vanilla legacy server. In fact, I'd probs spend half my WoW time in Classic and the other half in TBC... but replacing vanilla with TBC is not something I'd like to happen.

I believe it's not on Blizzard's interests either.

The vanilla community is significant, significant enough for Blizzard to yield to the idea of vanilla servers. Should they move the vanilla server to TBC, they'd bring back TBC community but would lose a good deal of the vanilla one.

I think that, if Blizz thinks the TBC playerbase is significant enough to make a profit of, then they will probs create a TBC server.


I should have clarified because my opinion has been posted in previous comments.

If they did make TBC I would want them to keep a vanilla server if possible. Really I am just asking if the option to more onto TBC would be that bad for people who prefer vanilla. If you are afraid of people leaving your guild for TBC because they want to move on from vanilla, then you were going to lose those people eventually anyway due to them just not being as a hardcore vanilla player as you.

Not saying you said this just using the term 'you' for anyone who would be worried about this.
I’m actually looking forward to something static like classic wow forever. I don’t get these posts. Am I supposed to be scared by it? I already know what vanilla entails and I’m excited for it.