So, a static world forever...

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
101
10/04/2018 06:13 PMPosted by Åpocalypse
10/04/2018 05:28 PMPosted by Piddy
The problem with progression and the "fresh server" concept is simply that, there's always this drive to race through the current server and then jump to another.


So YOUR "problem" with the current game, is the entire premise that the game was built upon.

Furthermore, you want to break that by putting a permanent static server live despite 14+ years of evidence pointing out how it doesn't work.

10/04/2018 05:28 PMPosted by Piddy
But they won't "run out of content" because people are running off to "fresh servers" (at least not fresh Blizzard servers), they're leaving because they're simply sick of the game.


Objectively and proven to be false.

10/04/2018 05:28 PMPosted by Piddy
See, the beauty of a static server is that -- it's static! There's no progression! If you get there day one or day 1000, it's the same server (save for having a more mature economy).

So, you're not missing anything. If you like leveling Dwarves and running through instances, and what not -- you can do that. If other folks like doing that, you can group with them.


Are you then advocating for all raids to launch at the start, including Naxxramas? Because your (objectively false) claim that it doesn't matter whether it starts at day 1 or day 1000 would imply that you believe this to be the case... You know what happens if Naxx is available at launch? Every Rogue and Warrior goes and trash farms Naxx until they get a pair of Servo arms. The entirety of dungeon, Molten Core, ZG, BWL, AQ40, Onyxia and AQ20 weapons gets entirely skipped over.... because those weapons are obsolete the second you can farm a Servo Arm for half the effort.

You don't improve the game or help it's longevity by invalidating the majority of the content, or turning off the gear treadmill that is at the center of the entire game design.

Whether you casuals like it or not, the progression grind is there for a reason, and it's a cornerstone of the game. The entire history of the retail game, and the entire history of Pservers have shown this to be an irrefutable fact of life.


Most people are actually pretty stupid, and lack the ability to see past their own nose.

Witu arguments like "I'll be PvPing for decades!" While everyone else will be long gone do to no content.
Ever been on Lights Hope? It's pretty much empty.
They mention expansions, when all is needed is new raids and dungeons.

Whichever side of the isle any of us may be on, the one thing I'm sure we all agree on is that expansions would be horrible for Classic, class changes would be just as awful.
Yet adding another raid or dungeon, a year after Naxx is heresy.

If you truly love the way Vanilla worked, we need a server type that gives us additional content, or you'll be left alone, in a game designed to be played with others, a year or so after Naxx is released.

Nor is it about retail vs classic. Vanilla lacks crz, lfr, lfd, dungeon finder, insta ports, server transfers, pay to win tokens and tools.
Everything that current wow has turned into, ruined WOW.

Now imagine new content in a vanilla world.. why would you not want that? To be honest, it's rather sad, because I know I'll be bailing 3-4 years after its released, simply because the population will die out, and I can only do the same content so much.
102
10/04/2018 06:13 PMPosted by Åpocalypse
Are you then advocating for all raids to launch at the start, including Naxxramas? Because your (objectively false) claim that it doesn't matter whether it starts at day 1 or day 1000 would imply that you believe this to be the case... You know what happens if Naxx is available at launch? Every Rogue and Warrior goes and trash farms Naxx until they get a pair of Servo arms. The entirety of dungeon, Molten Core, ZG, BWL, AQ40, Onyxia and AQ20 weapons gets entirely skipped over.... because those weapons are obsolete the second you can farm a Servo Arm for half the effort.


Dude even if rogues and warriors got servo arms it wouldn't invalidate all those raids you listed, they need armor etc.
Freshly level 60 rogues and warriors would need kiting classes to farm those wouldn't they? They would also need enough gold or rep to get into nax in the first place.
Artificially increasing the timegates by making it inaccessible in game only to a specific date is too retail and not legacy wow.
Either way skipping entire raids like molten core because your warrior got a savo arm would be a waste of a lockout because you'd get chance of getting gear that isn't weapons in the instance.
Give it to an enchanter or hunter if rogues and warriors are decked out on salvo arms you have to share loot with 40 other people in raids.
103
10/04/2018 05:03 PMPosted by Heyyoua
10/04/2018 04:33 PMPosted by Syradra
...

I already have explained, if you still don't understand it, it isn't my problem.


Your explanation makes no sense.

I explained why it doesn’t make any sense so tell me why it’s any different than a normal expansion


More like, you don't accept my reasoning and you claim it makes no sense. I already explained it. Simple as that.
104
10/04/2018 06:24 PMPosted by Bethlen
Classic will be somewhere fun to mess around while waiting for patches on retail. I can't read the future but I'd be shocked if Blizzard dedicated resources to developing new content for it.

The minute they roll out new content, its not classic. Once new content is out, you introduce the risk of creating new content players don't like and has to pass the very high standard from the players of being authentic to the vanilla experience.

The right move here is to leave Classic be and push any new content on retail. People who are playing for nostalgia or a desire to go back to the original iteration of WoW aren't going to skip because of lack of new content, and people who want new content have retail.


And perhaps that's the big caveat; I hate what wow has turned into. I know a lot of us do. I haven't even bought BFA, not will I ever, but I always loved Vanilla. TBC and Wrath would have been amazing as well if it weren't for the resilience stat.
105
10/04/2018 11:47 AMPosted by Mordegast
Perhaps you didn't play Vanilla, but played BC or Wrath.
I want you to try to remember a time, without the rose colored glasses, a time when ICC was out for what seemed like forever. Perhaps a time when BT, SCC, Any content really, had been out for a long period of time without new content.

Private servers are exempt from this in a way due to their nature.
The way they work is one opens up, it fills up, and then six months(ish) later another one opens up, promising everyone a fresh start, and new bobbles and gold wobbles! More transparency, better devs, less corruption, etc.
So what happens?
Well, 3/4 of the server bails for this "fresh start", and you're left playing an MMORPG that is actually quite dependent on other people. Alone. Of course not everyone will leave, but it gets bad. You can't fill the raid, you end up jumping in circles in Org or IF on your mount, perhaps hoping to see something fun to do in trade.

So what do you do? Well, you go to the new server and reroll your warrior. At least you have MC, BWL and perhaps some AQ to look forward to, especially since it's a fresh server. It can be fun, right?

How does this relate to Classic? Classic won't be going anywhere.
There will come a time when you will be sitting there in your capital, in your shiny gear, bouncing or sitting around, with nothing to do. Yes, even in vanilla you can run out of content.

I'm not speaking of the few of us who have downs syndrome and can play whack a mole or grind boars for 6 years straight, while laughing about seeing the boars get slaughtered.

Without additional content, the majority of the people will move on, your guild will die, and you'll be sitting there in front of your PC, a single tear running down the side of your cheek, wishing Vanilla would go on.

If you want Classic to remain, we MUST be pushing for a type of server that offers additional content post Naxx. It's the only way it will survive.
We're talking 2-3 years here, it will pass quickly.


I guarantee that Blizzard is way ahead of this issue. You really think they're going to invest hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars to make this happen and then, if it dies, shrug their shoulders and go "Oh well, tough luck."

They've already seen what happened in Rift, and how EQ handles this issue.

Let's just wait and see where they're taking this Classic thing. They may come up with something interesting.
106
10/04/2018 06:40 PMPosted by Mordegast
Now imagine new content in a vanilla world.. why would you not want that? To be honest, it's rather sad, because I know I'll be bailing 3-4 years after its released, simply because the population will die out, and I can only do the same content so much.

Well this a legacy realm and legacy realms are suppose to be about having everything frozen in time.
It would of been nice to have azshara crater in game, because it was a waste to have entrances to it but no portal.
If classic was a remake or reboot then it would probably be ok for added stuff or a special server for those who want to be tied down to a game for more than 3-4 years after the re release.
107
10/04/2018 06:46 PMPosted by Sixsixxsixx
10/04/2018 11:47 AMPosted by Mordegast
Perhaps you didn't play Vanilla, but played BC or Wrath.
I want you to try to remember a time, without the rose colored glasses, a time when ICC was out for what seemed like forever. Perhaps a time when BT, SCC, Any content really, had been out for a long period of time without new content.

Private servers are exempt from this in a way due to their nature.
The way they work is one opens up, it fills up, and then six months(ish) later another one opens up, promising everyone a fresh start, and new bobbles and gold wobbles! More transparency, better devs, less corruption, etc.
So what happens?
Well, 3/4 of the server bails for this "fresh start", and you're left playing an MMORPG that is actually quite dependent on other people. Alone. Of course not everyone will leave, but it gets bad. You can't fill the raid, you end up jumping in circles in Org or IF on your mount, perhaps hoping to see something fun to do in trade.

So what do you do? Well, you go to the new server and reroll your warrior. At least you have MC, BWL and perhaps some AQ to look forward to, especially since it's a fresh server. It can be fun, right?

How does this relate to Classic? Classic won't be going anywhere.
There will come a time when you will be sitting there in your capital, in your shiny gear, bouncing or sitting around, with nothing to do. Yes, even in vanilla you can run out of content.

I'm not speaking of the few of us who have downs syndrome and can play whack a mole or grind boars for 6 years straight, while laughing about seeing the boars get slaughtered.

Without additional content, the majority of the people will move on, your guild will die, and you'll be sitting there in front of your PC, a single tear running down the side of your cheek, wishing Vanilla would go on.

If you want Classic to remain, we MUST be pushing for a type of server that offers additional content post Naxx. It's the only way it will survive.
We're talking 2-3 years here, it will pass quickly.


I guarantee that Blizzard is way ahead of this issue. You really think they're going to invest hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars to make this happen and then, if it dies, shrug their shoulders and go "Oh well, tough luck."

They've already seen what happened in Rift, and how EQ handles this issue.

Let's just wait and see where they're taking this Classic thing. They may come up with something interesting.


I hope you're right.
108
10/04/2018 11:51 AMPosted by Heyyoua
I agree. I know people rage when you say this on a classic forum. And I am ALL for vanilla wow, but I mean once it runs out of time, if you don't make a FRESH server it will die. I honestly believe they should run through Vanilla>TBC>WRATH and then put that !@#$ on repeat. Go back to vanilla>TBC>Wrath.
Bro I would rub vanilla to bc to wrath for the rest of my life
109
10/04/2018 06:40 PMPosted by Mordegast
Now imagine new content in a vanilla world.. why would you not want that? To be honest, it's rather sad, because I know I'll be bailing 3-4 years after its released, simply because the population will die out, and I can only do the same content so much.
Because then it's no longer Classic. It's WoW 2, and I have no interest in the same experience of chasing new carrots every few months. That's what Current WoW is for.

And it's not going to happen. Blizzard is treating Classic as the museum piece it is.
110
10/04/2018 07:00 PMPosted by Mogar
10/04/2018 06:40 PMPosted by Mordegast
Now imagine new content in a vanilla world.. why would you not want that? To be honest, it's rather sad, because I know I'll be bailing 3-4 years after its released, simply because the population will die out, and I can only do the same content so much.
Because then it's no longer Classic. It's WoW 2, and I have no interest in the same experience of chasing new carrots every few months. That's what Current WoW is for.

And it's not going to happen. Blizzard is treating Classic as the museum piece it is.


Where's the link to prove your "museum piece" hypothesis? If it's static, it's dead in less than a year.

Progressive doesn't hurt the game at all, it can be static after it runs it's course.

Hopefully they don't listen to people like you or me, and just do what's best for the game.
111
best raids ever made: uldaur (in wotlk) and tbc karazhan :D

hardest raid ever made: vanilla naxx and tbc sunwell.

i think if we get that triology. as separate servers we can copy characters over to, there will be no end to the fun.

can fine tune your preferences for different experiences between the 3 wows.

keep the same server names so that you can advert to players from your server, to rejoin an earlier or later instance or raid. you would only be able to copy your max characters to a server with same name.
looking for a healer for halls of reflection. or looking for a tank for tbc magister's terrace. or looking for 2 dps for vanilla dire maul east. but have it announced to all 3 versions on the game on same server name so that people you were playing with before, know you're searching for group mates in some content.
112
10/04/2018 12:13 PMPosted by Cybertilded
Your a fan of the God Emperor of the United States as well?


You just reminded me of something...... something very funny about WarHammer, and a little video series dedicated too it..

I am laughing on the inside now.
113
10/04/2018 07:13 PMPosted by Hottdog
Where's the link to prove your "museum piece" hypothesis? If it's static, it's dead in less than a year.

Progressive doesn't hurt the game at all, it can be static after it runs it's course.

Hopefully they don't listen to people like you or me, and just do what's best for the game.
Read the interviews. It'll take you like 5 minutes.

If there is extra content added the game is dead. There, I gave as compelling an argument as you did. The difference is my stance is backed up by Blizzard.
1 Like
114
10/04/2018 11:47 AMPosted by Mordegast
without the rose colored glasses


You might have had a argument if you didn't write that.
115
10/04/2018 06:44 PMPosted by Syradra
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Your explanation makes no sense.

I explained why it doesn’t make any sense so tell me why it’s any different than a normal expansion


More like, you don't accept my reasoning and you claim it makes no sense. I already explained it. Simple as that.


Alright sweetie let’s think about this together. You say it’s not fair for people to transfer over 60s or any toon to a tbc realm because it’s unfair to people who haven’t played classic and also it will make inflation somehow.

It doesn’t make sense, unless you happen to be touched, because of a simple reason. That’s literally how expansions work. If you didn’t play retail vanilla and buy tbc you start at one. If you played in Vanilla and bought tbc you got to use your toon.

As for inflation. I really hope I don’t have to explain to you why that’s idiotic. But then again I had to explain the first part so....

Man these forums really make me lose faith in the education system and I have to say... I really hope you find your way eventually.
116
Blizzard will be keeping a eye on the numbers who play Classic you can be assured of that, if there is a sizable and stable population [say 250k] then they will do something. Its all supply and demand and this is a test for them whether they say so or not.
117
10/04/2018 07:13 PMPosted by Hottdog
If it's static, it's dead in less than a year.


Then let it die, the people who truly want it will stay and the people who don't will leave,i see nothing wrong with this.
1 Like
118
10/04/2018 11:47 AMPosted by Mordegast
Perhaps you didn't play Vanilla, but played BC or Wrath.
I want you to try to remember a time, without the rose colored glasses, a time when ICC was out for what seemed like forever. Perhaps a time when BT, SCC, Any content really, had been out for a long period of time without new content.

Private servers are exempt from this in a way due to their nature.
The way they work is one opens up, it fills up, and then six months(ish) later another one opens up, promising everyone a fresh start, and new bobbles and gold wobbles! More transparency, better devs, less corruption, etc.
So what happens?
Well, 3/4 of the server bails for this "fresh start", and you're left playing an MMORPG that is actually quite dependent on other people. Alone. Of course not everyone will leave, but it gets bad. You can't fill the raid, you end up jumping in circles in Org or IF on your mount, perhaps hoping to see something fun to do in trade.

So what do you do? Well, you go to the new server and reroll your warrior. At least you have MC, BWL and perhaps some AQ to look forward to, especially since it's a fresh server. It can be fun, right?

How does this relate to Classic? Classic won't be going anywhere.
There will come a time when you will be sitting there in your capital, in your shiny gear, bouncing or sitting around, with nothing to do. Yes, even in vanilla you can run out of content.

I'm not speaking of the few of us who have downs syndrome and can play whack a mole or grind boars for 6 years straight, while laughing about seeing the boars get slaughtered.

Without additional content, the majority of the people will move on, your guild will die, and you'll be sitting there in front of your PC, a single tear running down the side of your cheek, wishing Vanilla would go on.

If you want Classic to remain, we MUST be pushing for a type of server that offers additional content post Naxx. It's the only way it will survive.
We're talking 2-3 years here, it will pass quickly.


Wrong. This project is not being made for the reason you are stating here, it is being developed to preserve gaming history and bring back the vanilla players. Also stop and think for a moment about your entire argument: when "new" content comes out for WoW isn't it just rinse and repeat? You whack another mole...then another...except Blizzard has reset the game each expac so you gotta grind more levels and get new gear. In a sense this argument of yours shoots down ever doing another expac for WoW ever again.

I mean hey lots of people here think about what could have been if the game hadn't gone in such a crappy direction. But that ship has sailed! After WoW Classic you may see BC servers and/or Wrath servers. That's the most you can expect from this going forward. There won't be an alternate timeline WoW unlesss Blizzard makes an actual sequel: WoW 2. They have stated they weren't gonna do that and honestly with most of their greatest developers gone I am guessing it wouldn't hold a candle to the original. Sort of like what happened when SOE made EQ2...it wasn't even close to the original EQ. WoW slaughtered EQ2 for good reason.
119
10/04/2018 11:52 AMPosted by Lightelf
Additional content is not needed. Eventually, bereft of more content, Classic will become a ghost town. This is the nature of any online game. But there will always be that dedicated core who remain, and the game will still be there for those who want to play. Communities will become even more tight-knit, but the game will exist as it should: a time capsule for a different, brighter era.

Classic-WoW: Rise of the Alts

When you hit 60 with that warrior tank and have Naxx on farm, make that priest and start from 1 with different talents, different abilities and try the game as a caster. When the priest hits 60 and is farming Naxx, create that hybrid and start all over again with different talents, different abilities.

And if classic is successful enough, watch for Classic-TBC .....
120
So YOUR "problem" with the current game, is the entire premise that the game was built upon.


I thought the entire premise the game was built upon was to provide a role-playing game set in the Warcraft universe. Have they said anywhere that they only made World of Warcraft because otherwise they would have been unable to make expansions that raise the level cap 14 years later?

Furthermore, you want to break that by putting a permanent static server live despite 14+ years of evidence pointing out how it doesn't work.


We don't have 14+ years of evidence of a static live WoW server not working. We have 14+ years of a constantly changing server model being profitable. In order to have years of evidence of a static server not working for WoW, we would have had to have had 14+ years of static WoW servers.

10/04/2018 06:13 PMPosted by Åpocalypse
You know what happens if Naxx is available at launch? Every Rogue and Warrior goes and trash farms Naxx until they get a pair of Servo arms. The entirety of dungeon, Molten Core, ZG, BWL, AQ40, Onyxia and AQ20 weapons gets entirely skipped over.... because those weapons are obsolete the second you can farm a Servo Arm for half the effort.


Objectively and proven to be false.


See, you're under the impression that everybody raids only for gear. This is false. I've seen any number of people claim that they like a sense of progression. Such people will do things in the right order regardless of Blizzard forcing everybody else to do so or not.

10/04/2018 06:13 PMPosted by Åpocalypse
You don't improve the game or help it's longevity by invalidating the majority of the content, or turning off the gear treadmill that is at the center of the entire game design.


Somehow, I think you're missing the point of retail. It retains both of those things ("improvement"/longevity (though this ironically has invalidated the majority of the content)). Therefore, Classic cannot possibly have people who want those things as its target demographic.

10/04/2018 06:13 PMPosted by Åpocalypse
Whether you casuals like it or not, the progression grind is there for a reason, and it's a cornerstone of the game. The entire history of the retail game, and the entire history of Pservers have shown this to be an irrefutable fact of life.


You have a strange definition of "fact." Until you show that everybody only played vanilla for the gear they could get in raids, and that there was no profitable portion of the player base that had a different reason for playing classic, your claim to have a "fact" needs to be taken with a grain of salt.