Heres the thing though...How would the addition of a new type of server, different than the classic museum, that offers content patches, negatively affect your Classic experience?
I'd personally have no problem if they were separate servers. Have a classic server with no changes, then a classic+ server or something with new content. I don't think Blizz will go for it personally, as it seems they'd rather focus all new content on BFA and future expansions, but I wouldn't have an issue if they did it that way.
Perhaps you didn't play Vanilla, but played BC or Wrath.
I want you to try to remember a time, without the rose colored glasses, a time when ICC was out for what seemed like forever. Perhaps a time when BT, SCC, Any content really, had been out for a long period of time without new content.
Private servers are exempt from this in a way due to their nature.
The way they work is one opens up, it fills up, and then six months(ish) later another one opens up, promising everyone a fresh start, and new bobbles and gold wobbles! More transparency, better devs, less corruption, etc.
So what happens?
Well, 3/4 of the server bails for this "fresh start", and you're left playing an MMORPG that is actually quite dependent on other people. Alone. Of course not everyone will leave, but it gets bad. You can't fill the raid, you end up jumping in circles in Org or IF on your mount, perhaps hoping to see something fun to do in trade.
So what do you do? Well, you go to the new server and reroll your warrior. At least you have MC, BWL and perhaps some AQ to look forward to, especially since it's a fresh server. It can be fun, right?
How does this relate to Classic? Classic won't be going anywhere.
There will come a time when you will be sitting there in your capital, in your shiny gear, bouncing or sitting around, with nothing to do. Yes, even in vanilla you can run out of content.
I'm not speaking of the few of us who have downs syndrome and can play whack a mole or grind boars for 6 years straight, while laughing about seeing the boars get slaughtered.
Without additional content, the majority of the people will move on, your guild will die, and you'll be sitting there in front of your PC, a single tear running down the side of your cheek, wishing Vanilla would go on.
If you want Classic to remain, we MUST be pushing for a type of server that offers additional content post Naxx. It's the only way it will survive.
We're talking 2-3 years here, it will pass quickly.
Keep telling us what we want. You'll be president of Blizzard in no time!
Different people have different desires in games.
Yes, some people ALWAYS need something new, are always chasing the next high. However, no, they are not the only people out there, and not everything needs to cater to them.
I despised the addition of Isle of Quel'danis, and even though I did all the other BC raiding, I never touched a single boss in Sunwell until I came back for Legion and could solo it. I burned out on progression raiding in Ulduar, actually, and the addition of the TotC and later ICC were completely unnecessary for me to keep playing WOW.
Even though I've killed the final boss in games like Final Fantasy and Tomb Raider and Sonic the Hedgehog, even though I've found every secret, collected every item, I can still head back to those games and find the one thing that is most important: fun.
WOW: Classic does not need to offer anything post-Naxx. It does not need to survive by chasing the most fickle audience who wants new, shiny content. (Those players might need novelty, but they are better served by Retail, or other games. It's not the game that needs novelty, but that segment of the playerbase.)
Sure, maybe in 5 years or 10 years there will only be a handful of regular players, but those people will be having fun doing whatever it is that logging into WOW: Classic lets them do - fish, try to explore every inch of land and water, roleplay with the few other players on at the same time.
I completely understand your argument, and what you're saying.
Heres the thing though...How would the addition of a new type of server, different than the classic museum, that offers content patches, negatively affect your Classic experience?
Even if it was on YOUR server, as long as classes, or the vanilla world didn't change, and it was just content being added, how would it negatively affect you?
as long as its separate, it would be awesome. but that means the content creators have to start brainstorming two different mmorpgs. hehe
i'd love to see what vanilla would be like if it had more content added. different races or more races. new dungeons or just heroic versions of old ones. mythic raids. maybe an emeral dream expansion for it. but thats a whole new avenue of investment and we mmorpgers would have to convince blizzards execs that it was worth it by swamping classic with money. and our competition is micro transactions
You try to make yourself sound smart, but then not only do you misquote Blizzard, you show your failure at reading comprehension.
When they spoke of maintaining two MMOs, it was in relation to server hardware and server upkeep, you know, maintenance. Nowhere did they mention content at all.
If I'm trying to make myself sound smart, you must be trying to make yourself sound stupid. Content development is far more time consuming than server and hardware upkeep, and requires hiring much more skilled employees, or even employees who will require training.
Additionally maybe you should actually research first, since Blizz has in fact gone on record saying they have no plans for additional content in Classic.
So content-wise it will be the same?Ans: Content-wise it will be identical.
Also
"There's a desire for us to preserve something."
"We'd like a Blizzard quality experience of the original game."
https://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/world-of-warcraft-classic-interview/
This is stuff they have gone on the records saying. And these are game developers. They understand that a game with no new content eventually dwindles down. Like I said, I don't EXPECT any additional content, but if Blizz thinks they can turn a profit, it wouldn't surprise me.
classic was out for 3 years and barely anyone even killed Kel'thuzad
I know people have more game knowledge now but I'd honestly say it will probably be the same. Getting 40 people that have a brain will still be a struggle. Classic lasts at least 3+ years for people looking to raid. And that's ONE character.
3+ years of classic is more than satisfactory to me
also you are looking at this as a completely new alternative to live servers, its not. This is for the people that never got to play it or are nostalgic about it. Play live if you want new content.
What the hell would be the difference of them adding content to Classic vs adding content to Live? Nothing, its the same people with the same mindset. They would ruin classic.
1 Like
A role playing game loses appeal for a large part of the audience when they have nothing left to do to progress their character.
If it is vanilla only and after we clear naxx we sit there forever the servers will start to die during naxxramas. I'll still play and have a blast but I'll know that we will have a best before date on the server.
10/04/2018 12:34 PMPosted by
Klaani
I don't get why you'd want changes. If you want changes, just play BFA. That's where the changes lead. This is just going to be an old version of the game made for those who enjoy it. Why change it when there's already a version of WoW that is already being changed and updated for people that want new content??
Because it's the mechanics of vanilla that made old WoW enjoyable for me, not the content. Adding new content doesn't mean you have to mess with the mechanics and go bananas with QoL changes like they did with modern WoW.
1 Like
10/04/2018 12:34 PMPosted by
Klaani
I don't get why you'd want changes. If you want changes, just play BFA. That's where the changes lead. This is just going to be an old version of the game made for those who enjoy it. Why change it when there's already a version of WoW that is already being changed and updated for people that want new content??
Because it's the mechanics of vanilla that made old WoW enjoyable for me, not the content. Adding new content doesn't mean you have to mess with the mechanics and go bananas with QoL changes like they did with modern WoW.
Blizz's idea of good content and changes are what we're seeing in BFA. If they start making changes to classic, I wouldn't expect them to really be capable of making content that feels authentic to classic. In any case, I wouldn't care if they made changes on a separate "classic+" server. I just want classic to exist, as it was, on it's own server so that I can always go back there in case they mess something up.
I'd also like to say, adding new content isn't as simple as people might think. Adding new content means adding new gear, for example. With new gear, comes changes. Maybe people are running around with 10k hp unbuffed suddenly. Maybe with the increases in stats, certain classes start underperforming or overperforming. Blizz suddenly may have to buff/nerf classes to keep them in line with the new gear. Then they have to add new pvp gear as well, because it'll fall behind too much to the point where ranking isn't worth it at all. PvP Gear was already falling behind by the time AQ came out, but it'd be completely useless with another raid tier added above naxx. That's just a quick example, but I could think of more.
Stuff like that. Adding new raids and contents without changing other major parts of the game is pretty challenging, and I simply don't believe Blizz would be able to keep classic feeling like classic if they keep adding new things.
10/04/2018 12:34 PMPosted by
Klaani
I don't get why you'd want changes. If you want changes, just play BFA. That's where the changes lead. This is just going to be an old version of the game made for those who enjoy it. Why change it when there's already a version of WoW that is already being changed and updated for people that want new content??
Because it's the mechanics of vanilla that made old WoW enjoyable for me, not the content. Adding new content doesn't mean you have to mess with the mechanics and go bananas with QoL changes like they did with modern WoW.
THIS! With a dedicated vanilla content team
Without additional content, the majority of the people will move on, your guild will die, and you'll be sitting there in front of your PC, a single tear running down the side of your cheek, wishing Vanilla would go on.
this type of thing already happens in retail, and it has been getting new content for about 14 years now.
All new content added to classic will do is make many quit and new people will join to replace them, and then you just have WoW2 with players advocating for classic WoW again.
if it dies, it dies.
10/04/2018 01:05 PMPosted by
Klaani
<span class="truncated">...</span>
Because it's the mechanics of vanilla that made old WoW enjoyable for me, not the content. Adding new content doesn't mean you have to mess with the mechanics and go bananas with QoL changes like they did with modern WoW.
Blizz's idea of good content and changes are what we're seeing in BFA. If they start making changes to classic, I wouldn't expect them to really be capable of making content that feels authentic to classic. In any case, I wouldn't care if they made changes on a separate "classic+" server. I just want classic to exist, as it was, on it's own server so that I can always go back there in case they mess something up.
Okay, I am not saying that they 100% should do this but lets be a little fair here. The content they are making for BFA is being made under the notion of 'make it new, make it flashy, make it quick'. If we had a team that were there to make dungeons and raids (like kara crypts) they can make it under a vanilla philosophy. Comparing BFA raids to what they could make in vanilla isnt too fair because they are making them for two completely different games.
...
Blizz's idea of good content and changes are what we're seeing in BFA. If they start making changes to classic, I wouldn't expect them to really be capable of making content that feels authentic to classic. In any case, I wouldn't care if they made changes on a separate "classic+" server. I just want classic to exist, as it was, on it's own server so that I can always go back there in case they mess something up.
Okay, I am not saying that they 100% should do this but lets be a little fair here. The content they are making for BFA is being made under the notion of 'make it new, make it flashy, make it quick'. If we had a team that were there to make dungeons and raids (like kara crypts) they can make it under a vanilla philosophy. Comparing BFA raids to what they could make in vanilla isnt too fair because they are making them for two completely different games.
With the vanilla team gone, I don't have much confidence that they'd be capable of making content that fits the vanilla philosophy. That is just speculation though. What you're saying is possible, but I don't find it likely.
I edited in a couple more concerns I had in the post you quoted though, gearing issues and what not, that I think would fundamentally change vanilla even if they did successfully make content that fits vanilla.
IMO there should always be a server left that is a completely static Vanilla, a museum server essentially.
6 months - 1 year in and they find that classic is a success then absolutely plans should be made to add more content or introduce the expansions. They do have a team for classic so it would only be logical to at least consider those options.
1 Like
I have a couple ideas:
1. just add completely new raids and dungeons that drop gear equivalent or worse then Naxx. Dungeons to play catch-up, same with raids, and difficult ones at Naxx lvl. I DONT MEAN GEAR BETTER THEN NAXX, i think a lot of us know that we dont want power creeping up anymore then naxx lvl.
2. Add ironman/deadman realm. Basically have a realm that implements the rules of ironman or deadman type game. This would be something for guilds that destroyed all the content in Classic and want a true challenge. and yes we all know we can do it on any realm. But having the rules of 1 life or lowering gear dependencies makes it more fun because you know everyone on the realm is working for survival together.
How does this relate to Classic? Classic won't be going anywhere.
There will come a time when you will be sitting there in your capital, in your shiny gear, bouncing or sitting around, with nothing to do. Yes, even in vanilla you can run out of content.
I have no issue with this. Players can then either remain or leave on their own terms. Vanilla left us back in 2006 on Blizzard's terms, we were given no choice.
Additional content is not needed. Eventually, bereft of more content, Classic will become a ghost town. This is the nature of any online game. But there will always be that dedicated core who remain, and the game will still be there for those who want to play. Communities will become even more tight-knit, but the game will exist as it should: a time capsule for a different, brighter era.
Counterpoint: Diablo 2 still has a healthy following.
1 Like
10/04/2018 01:22 PMPosted by
Sempi
IMO there should always be a server left that is a completely static Vanilla, a museum server essentially.
6 months - 1 year in and they find that classic is a success then absolutely plans should be made to add more content or introduce the expansions. They do have a team for classic so it would only be logical to at least consider those options.
This is a great idea IMO. I don't believe they should 'shut down' vanilla to bring in more expansions/content. And if at all possible I believe they should keep them up. And I agree completely with the thought behind them bringing in something new. If it's successful and brings in a lot of money or keeps sub numbers at a high state than what they are now, it wouldn't make any sense to not jump on the next project.
10/04/2018 01:20 PMPosted by
Klaani
...
Okay, I am not saying that they 100% should do this but lets be a little fair here. The content they are making for BFA is being made under the notion of 'make it new, make it flashy, make it quick'. If we had a team that were there to make dungeons and raids (like kara crypts) they can make it under a vanilla philosophy. Comparing BFA raids to what they could make in vanilla isnt too fair because they are making them for two completely different games.
With the vanilla team gone, I don't have much confidence that they'd be capable of making content that fits the vanilla philosophy. That is just speculation though. What you're saying is possible, but I don't find it likely.
I edited in a couple more concerns I had in the post you quoted though, gearing issues and what not, that I think would fundamentally change vanilla even if they did successfully make content that fits vanilla.
Well, if they have a team of developers who come in and they are forced to remake all the old raids and dungeons to what they once were I wouldn't find it hard to believe they would pick up on the 'feel' of vanilla.
Like imagine you are a dungeon creator and you want to make the Kara crypts. I honestly can picture it in a vanilla type layout and a BFA type layout in my head and I am no level designer. They just have to constantly look back at dungeons like BRD and Strath that made the dungeon feel more like an actual city and not like a highway leading you where to go.
Counterpoint: Diablo 2 still has a healthy following.
Just going to play devil's advocate here.
Diablo 2 first off has an arguable healthy population. Also, diablo 2 is a single player game. You can hop on diablo whenever you want whether there is 5 million people playing or 2 people playing and still play through the game. WoW NEEDS a lot of people to even be played. Imagine your server starts to dwindle. You cant find a tank for raids. You have to cancel a raid night. The next week you run out of healers to find as well. Now you're down to one raid night. The more people leave, the more people who stay will be more inclined to leave with them. If you can't have enough people to raid then you are stuck doing dungeons. Well then what if enough people leave your server now you can't even do that. WoW would turn into just a game where you level to 60 and then quit.
Don't worry, with our new Prez at Blizz I doubt you need to worry about this lol.
Alright I'll bite suspicious lvl 1 alt who is like "i'm totally for classic but don't you think they should make changes to it guys before things even comeout? maybe make it more like the current product".
Seriously, thats you right now.
this isn't going to be an issue for you anyway, since its going to take you quite some time to make it through all the game's content, and you'll likely become disenchanted for actually working for your loot. You only have so many lockouts to gear up your raid.
Lets revisit this at a time when it's actually a problem. Perhaps in the 2-3 years it takes for all the content to be consumed (or more most likely) they'll underrstand what a hellish abomination the current product has become and start developing new expansions for the classic system again. I'd love to see them take another crack at the content originally set to be in vanilla that was ultimately cut, such as Hyjal (now with proper giant archimond skeleton)