Yeah pvp is definitely different and there are many more problems there that don’t exist is pve. The self healing nerfs in particular I find ridiculous.
I can understand why they nerfed wog in BfA season 1, it was actually kind of toxic as an aoe heal. If it healed the same now as a single target heal it’d be completely fine. It doesn’t help we’re also still continuing with the awful level 15 talent row. Righteous verdict while feels ok in pve is unviable in pvp (nerfed 33%, zeal is overall the highest sustain damage talent in pvp) and ES being extremely boring as a colossus smash window and losing wisdom will hurt a lot
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Idk ret is so squishy I think having the aoe heal is fine.
Ret has always been on the squish side. I’d advocate them to remove the nerf templates though rn because there is far more toxic stuff in this current meta than ret being able to completely negate a go with a 1 min cd heal
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You say your progression doesn’t make your opinion less valid and then come at me with this:
You obviously have no experience whatsoever in developing a raid roster, unless you are in a top 200 guild you will not have the people available to sub out for meta related reasons. Unless it’s completely unviable any spec is generally fine.
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I mean i have a friend in a guild that is 9/12 and the only reason why he isn’t a main raider is because he plays mist weaver, is he in a top 200 guild? No but it doesn’t matter any guild that seriously wants to progress are going to take the most meta specs. And i don’t think rets are even going to be that good, you have not really said any reason why rets would be good other than “they’ll just get buffed”. Even though the main reason why the class will be good is because of the borrowed power that they will add in which will still mean the the roots of the spec aren’t good.
I can promise you there is a lot more going on there than him playing mist weaver. At this late stage in the tier the things standing between you and the next boss kill is very rarely your healer being a mist weaver or a holy paladin.
On whether ret will be good I simply said if it’s tuned too low it will be buffed. I would go even further and say as far as pve goes ret is one of the better specs in terms of baseline toolkits. I don’t like relying on borrowed power systems either, but that’s the state of the game at this point and is not a particular failing of rets design. Ret is among the specs least effected by removing the bfa systems.
You have also not made a good case as to why ret will be bad. Most of your argument is that we are losing the borrowed power systems of bfa, but this is true of every other spec in the game. In fact ret has received a lot of that borrowed power back in as talents, which again sets ret up as being largely unaffected by these losses.
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not really. But currently, ret/enhance are squishier than a warlock or a mage. It’s really sad.
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Uh ya kinda lol
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That doesn’t make sense based on the fact that it’s late in the tier and if they want to pick the most optimal picks to push for cutting edge. But I mean whatever, also the spec is not good because it doesn’t provide raid utility that hpally could just do, which I already said. Also if we have to rely on a covenant specific borrowed power system then we will probably have to take a choice we don’t want to. Not only that but ret dmg is based to much in wings so without vision I think we will be pretty bad.
As tiers age fewer and fewer people look for mythic progress, as it seems like a waste of time. On top of that it takes time to get a specific character ready for that last few bosses in mythic nyalotha, not to mentioned the level of player skill needed for those encounters. At this stage you simply can’t turn away people because it isn’t meta. Chances are the people who are those meta choices and have the skill and mindset for mythic are already either done with mythic or have been with a group for quite a while.
To put it simply, there are not enough prospective mythic raiders looking for spots for you to sit people based on their choice of class.
Ret has been dependent on wings since at least cataclysm, when I picked up the spec, long before visions of perfection was in the game. It’s not something I would worry about.
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Rets are in a really good spot in Slands. Vision of perfection was one of the worst things to happen to ret in a long time. Your entire dps was tied to rng of how often it proced. And if it hardly procs your damage drops significantly. This entire tier with corruption and Vision has been entirely RNG favored more so then ever before. Rets have been good entirety of bfa. You’ve almost always wanted 1 in high end raiding progression this expansion.
Rets have gained a lot more depth in slands. A lot of abilities are now baseline. You can set yourself ahead in Slands from other rets due to skill. Where as in bfa you can be terrible at your rotation get vision procs and do more. Our mobility is a lot better with conduits and covenants. Kings was basically useless and Wisdom was ok. But it’s not a big deal that they are gone. Rets biggest issue on beta which is just bad design philosophy is retribution Aura. Getting rewarded for players dieing is terrible game design and unfun. Blessing of seasons is good but ret does fine without it. It’s also just unfun game design so I’m glad their reworking it. For example in raid testing today on the tank and spank boss. I was using divine toll which is useless single target. I essentially had no covenant abilities. And I was doing 4-5k dps average single target. With seasons or ashen that damage goes up massively.
Rets currently above average on Beta compared to most classes. The rotation actually has a lot more depth and is a lot more fun. The legendaries paired with talents make for some great combos. Ret has a high skill cap. It’s the type of class that if you arent playing it at the highest level. Your probly going to be mediocre. Nyalotha was one of the worst iterations of ret in awhile as you could be bad but get vision procs/corruption procs and do decent damage. Shadowlands has made a lot of steps in the right direction. The only rets I’ve seen complaining tend to be the lfr rets. Who dont like having a lot keybinds.
I’ve played ret since Vanilla, Its always been my main through the good and the bad. I’m not just some random guy with no experience. I’ve raided top 10 us multiple expansions and have been #1-5 parsing ret previous expacs world. Even when I’m raiding more casual I’l consistently orange parse. I’m also 2900 xp 10x Glad in pvp. This isn’t flexing I’m just giving my experience to show I know what I’m talking about.
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for context what was the general dps of the other people in the raid?
Most were around 3k-4k. And these are players who are all top tier players/orange parses on retail. Some classes have broken legendaries. For example locks are doing like 8k. But they are blowing everyone out of the water. And def will be nerfed.
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oooh thats pretty good then. if you dont mind another question, were you using a proc heavy build or something more consistent?
Well I’ve been testing a lot of things. Currently for single target the best build I’ve found is ES, Hammer of Wrath wings extender Legendary paired with seraphim and sanctified wrath. Pmuch little to no rng. The legendary if used properly can make wings last long enough to use 2 seraphims during wings. I still have some other thing I wanna theory craft. And with Venthyr or night fae covs I’m pretty sure I could of done 6-7k on the tank and spank fight. Theirs like no breaks in the rotating either because of all the abilities. Ret normally is pretty boring start of a expansion. Because lack of hastes makes you sit their with no globals to use because everythings on cd. But thats not a issue on beta.
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That actually sounds pretty fun if you can pull it off. Personally I always enjoyed the more proc based playstyle. Im personally hoping that a heavy proc build is at least viable in endgame. I really like that you can have a heavy proc build, and the seraphim build you described as well since having the ability to be extremely consistent on mythic prog is invaluable.
Rets talents seem to be overall much better designed this time around.
The Final Verdict legendary sounds extremely cool to me, I wonder if that would be pretty good with divine purpose.
ye I mean I toyed around with other builds and more proc based ones. And they were still fine. they competed with everyone fine. But ye ideally less rng is better for prog like you mentioned. Depends on the content your doing. It’s so weird to me that people are complaining about ret. Also funny to see them complaining vision is gone. Vision was one of the worst /most hated things for rets in a long time. Pmuch every good ret I know hated it. Because nothing was in your control. You werent punished for underperforming. I think the real issue these guys have is lower players skill levels means not being able to play shadowlands ret well.
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I have a love hate relationship with it. In more casual content like the assault dailies and horrific visions, its actually pretty cool and feels like a great bonus. In prog, it really sucks to have to play around. It feels absolutely awful when it does proc but you cant use it for whatever mechanic that just targeted you.
honestly the thing I’ve hated the most since legion is ret aura. It’s just terrible game design. And now its a actual aura in slands. It’s my biggest critique of ret in slands.
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