To be fair last time Seal of Command was around it was a cleave wasn’t it not Casino?
Did it even exist in cataclysm and mists I can’t remember?
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i mean they should just make it so the blessing of seasons is base line instead of just scrapping it. But that’s probably not gonna happen
lmao your rant was so wandering and random and made almost no sense and even at times contradicted itself. I have no idea if the class is looking good bad or un between, but it’s def clear you have little idea whats actually going on.
seal of command was cleave in wotlk. It did burst damage with your Hammer of Justice and Repentance in vanilla/tbc/
WOTLK wasnt perfect but the seal system in wotlk was different than the vanilla/tbc version. Having three different judgement spells is kinda redundant. You didn’t have to refresh your seal every time you judge. Seals are a 30 min buff. Actual attacks are crusader strike, judgment, exorcism, divine storm (which is an actual weapon attack that cleaves up to 4 enemies within 4 yards), Hammer of wrath, Consecration and Holy wrath. Avenging wrath was your main burst cd.
You had alot of utility.
Baseline Divine plea which regained your mana in case you needed to off heal. Baseline Aura Mastery which made Conc aura give you immunity to interrupts for 6 seconds, and improve the other aura effects by 100%. 2 min cd.
A baseline taunt that did damage.
Baseline Sacred shield that absorbed small amount of damage and buffed your Flash of light spell crit by 50% for 6 seconds. Doesnt have a cd but effectively has a 6 sec cd on the crit effect.
Paladins have been wrecked and turned into something else thats not a paladin ever since cata added the holy power system.
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that one is fine, but seeing how he’s trying to push for everything from vanilla; he just wants that rng back. the seal system in WoD is the best version of seals.
so he says this, but reports me because i did not agree with his love for seal of casino lol
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i reported you because you engaged in harassing behavior not because of your opinion on seal of command. Read the Code of Conduct. If you actually read what I posted I didnt say I want vanilla ret to be replace retail ret. I wanted elements of the vanilla THRU wotlk paladin to come back to the class.
Seals, exorcism, judgement actually worthwhile, divine storm an actual attack again.
In beta they are adding back in Sense Undead, a vanilla paladin spell. If they’re going to add a spell to detect undead mobs then adding back exorcism and holy wrath makes alot of sense. They can even make a talent that replaces blade of justice with exorcism too.
Have you looked at conduits? 30% increased movementspeed for 8 seconds after freedom fades, 100% increased duration on divine steed.
Tuning.
Lets be real you meant survivability because 1% mana every 5 seconds or whatever is not that impactful. Also there is a conduit that gives one of your auras 60% fear duration reduction which is crazy good.
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I don’t have Beta so no way to test it myself, however I’ve been paying attention and pretty much every report I see from people playing Paladin in Beta has been positive. There are indeed some issues and things that can be improved and we should report those, but also keep in mind that’s always true for all classes. Overall I think Paladins are in a very decent spot compared to most other classes.
Lost some utility in greater blessing, gained more impacful utility with Blessing of Sacrifice and Auras (Devo specially).
About the actual numbers I don’t know, but that’s just a matter of tuning, we can’t really tell if it’s going to be weaker or stronger when it’s all set and done. The ability to heal the group with WoG seems to be lacking which I agree is a concern worth expressing but this can also be easily fixed with tunning.
I guess moving Hearth of the crusader to an Aura can indeed be considered a small nerf to Divine Steed, it’s likely an unintended consequence of the change but it’s worth it pointing it out, can be easily offset by buffing Divine Steed to give 20% extra speed, all though there’s a conduit to increase the duration which will probably offset this and a bit more.
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Every expansion the bad ret paladins come out with their bountiful LFR experience to tell everyone if things dont change that ret will be absolute trash, and nobody will invite them to groups, their guilds will kick them out, and you will be left alone with a bad character.
This is almost never true, while ret has never really been meta, it has been pretty consistently middle of the pack. The only time the LFR veterans were right was on legion launch, and within 2 weeks it was buffed back into about middle of the pack.
Ret has its problems going into shadowlands, but none of them are so bad that they will be a garbage spec.
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What your saying is wrong based on the fact that you can’t just swap between them when ever you want. The chances are that these different abilities are locked behind different covanents and even if your still gonna get stunned on your mount lol. Also with them losing the blessing doesn’t matter I’m saying why did they remove them Ret is supposed to Enhance their allies and the fact is that they are terrible at that with no blessings at all. The tuning part is true but I’m complaining because they Have only changed the op covenant ability.
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I can already tell you they aren’t because they are conduits.
I’d say with devotion aura and a 60% fear duration reduction they are doing far more than they can now with support utility.
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I mean you know Soulbinds are locked behind the specific Covenant and even if that one covenant soul bind is very good you’ll be locked in to taking it. And if it out preforms the rest of the souls binds it will just get nerfed. And I mean you do know Devo aura is for all specs, and it isn’t even that good it’s 3 percent dmg reduction you are still gonna probably get killed if you stand in the fire with this on lol. Also warlocks have like ten times more utility that’s actually helpful for a raid/dungeon group.
Ret isn’t in a very good state at the moment (in alpha). Surely not one of the worst but mediocre at best. Certain problems haunt us since Legion (mobility, rotational problems, dead talents,…), new ones have arisen in SL alpha (Cons, new dead talents, Ret Aura,…). I’m your Average Joe paladin player (Questing, ranked PvP on the lower end, still no +15 in time, non-raider), but even then I can see the glaring issues ret has and I will continue to point them out.
Will blizz make ret work? Sure, some band aid fixes here and there, as usual. But it doesn’t have to be that way. Does this apply to other specs? Sure. But we are here to talk about rets in specific.
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Given that you do not even do really any content of difficulty based on your statement, you simply do not have the context to be able to tell if there are glaring issues. You can make guesses sure, but they wouldn’t be educated or based in any experience. Concecration is a mostly pointless addition, but it’s not a problem, and the only people who will realistically be negatively affected by ret aura are RPers and the 12 people who still care about parsing. Also tuning has not been started so there are no dead talents at this time.
The only problem ret has at the moment is its mobility, its otherwise in a pretty good state. At least as far as pve goes.
After tuning is done there will be dead talents, but every spec has those. It is the nature of the talent system, there will always be a best choice.
Can agree with Consecration being pretty worthless, would of rather seen something better unpruned or added. However, ret aura is a major problem imo. It’s a garbage aura and a garbage passive and they’ve tuned around it in the past. Would rather it be gone and replaced. From a PvE standpoint, the rotational gaps and clunkiness can be problematic so I can 100% see why people are upset about that.
As you said, dead talents will always exist too, that’s just the nature of the game. In PvE ret will probably end up okay or middle of the pack. I don’t think it’ll be too good in PvP though, since we have a nerfed template on WoG and a few other abilities.
Edit: Would also like to see Healing Hands replaced with a talent that lets WoG heal multiple targets like it does now. Super sick in PvE.
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They just don’t know what to do with our spec at this point.
It’s just laughable at best at this point.
Covenants spells we get trash, I dont even think I will be an aurabot for the top dps with seasons.
No real redesigns in sight, dead on arrival talents, auras are just a meme and the GCD is still there to haunt us forever, mobility still the wheelchair meme as always can’t even glyph into long arm of the law either.
Looks like dead on arrival for now. And let me remind people that we’re on BETA not alpha.
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haha yep they’ll just fix the talents like blizzard always does even though the class changes are basically done i mean come on man do you really think that ret won’t be like this on release, if they haven’t change the talents yet than I doubt they will. And even if there are some dead talents, the fact that they haven’t reworked like half of the terrible ones shows a lot about the class design team. Just because your 6/12 doesn’t make your opinion more valid than someone who has like 3/12 lol. Paladins is that they are to wings reliant and the fact that they are lacking loads of utility and buffs that they used to have. I mean why would any raiding guild take a ret over a ranged class that does more damage, when they could take a holy paladin which has always been good and has the exact same utility.
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This thread is so much yikes
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Yeah as a ret who focuses on pvp and to at least a decent level (2500 last season, and highest rbg ret NA for the second season now) there is a decent amount of issues. Mobility as you said is really bad, and it seems we’re being forced to be a really mongo pure damage spec because of how little healing we have atm. I think we both can agree dead talents have always been a thing, even in pvp which sees more talent swapping there are certain talents never touched past 1800. Although there now exists a talent that will literally never ever be pressed beyond 1400 players who can’t read.
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