Sl rets aren't that good

It was there until seals were removed.

Ret Paladins have been decent throughout BFA, even before Visions of Perfection.
The mobility hasn’t been buffed or nerfed anymore than normal (so I agree it isn’t good, but it’s not worse).
Blessing of Seasons is hot garbage. Divine Toll is actually a solid ability, even for Rets. Boring doesn’t mean bad or useless.

You either don’t know what you are talking about, are spreading misinformation, or only like one particular playstyle for Ret (namely most DPS inside of wings window).

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how is it solid if its only a judgement every 1min in single target?


There comes a point where just discussing the changes gets to a point of becoming depressing. If anything changes at this point I’d hope it will be Retribution Aura. Everything else I’ll find a way to make it work. Been doing so through our highs and lows.

I think All Covenant abilities should have being like Divine Toll or Vanquisher’s Hammer. In that they’re not game breakingly powerful, just a little extra flavour. Things like Seasons is just too much IMO, as it provides not only stronger dps, but also utility and survivability the others don’t.

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Not sure if you have already seen it, but the guys from Hammer of Wrath discord found that Divine Toll’s damage has been buffed by 100%. Seems to be quite decent now, especially in AoE.

Oh the irony.

I wasn’t saying that ret does 0 damage. I think rets do good damage and that it’s a strong spec and I’m thinking of switching to it as my main in SL. I was just comparing the EXTRA damage from AW to the FULL damage another class does.

Again, let me reiterate as I’m sure you don’t understand.

Let’s say a ret and a rogue are both doing 60k dps. If ret gets 8 seconds of AW then let’s say damage goes up by 40% to 84k dps. In 8 seconds that’s an extra 24x8 = 192k from AW. Rogue FULL damage in 3 seconds would be similar - 180k dps. That’s all I was saying - that it generally doesn’t make sense to let someone die for the aura as I saw suggested by someone.

Now, I missed that ret aura gets buffed from 8 to 12 seconds by a later level upgrade. And yes, with the badge legendary equipped that can extend the duration further. I also take your points about how strong ret aura can be in raid environments, particularly during progression, and that there are cases where you can’t control whether other people are dying.

I pretty much agree with everything you said except your inaccurate and dismissive characterization of my post. I’m also encouraged that someone with your accomplished history with the spec thinks rets are looking good in SL.


I’l apologize for making the assumption. I’ve had the argument with a lot of people about ret aura who don’t full understand how it works. And while I still disagree with some things you said its unfair to clump you in. I never think someone should sack themsleves for the buff though. So maybe I should of made that clear. I’m glad your interested in ret. Assuming tuneing goes well rest of beta I’m very excited for sl ret.

I think empyrion power should just be baselined.

I don’t like that they nerfed the proc chance. We need helping smoothing out our rotation and this change does the opposite. I really wish they would nerf our burst window just a little bit and buff the other 90% of our playtime lol.

I like ret but it’s so close to being an absolute blast that it’s frustrating. Lol


I would rather divine purpose be baselined. It has a pretty long history with the spec, and I always hate choosing the other two talents that are on its same row.

Both? Haha. I also think divine purpose should be baseline. I feel like it’s a bad choice over the other two in the row but I like the smoothness it adds with the procs so I’ll just end up picking it anyway

Plus the minor skill involved in grtting your judgment debuff on before just slamming the key lol


oh I didnt mean both. I just meant divine purpose, sorry if that was unclear.

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No it was! Sorry I wasn’t being clear lol. I meant maybe they could just baseline both! if I had to pick though I would choose divine purpose for sure

thats a bit much imo. theres value in being able to opt out of rng proc based gameplay, but I personally feel that divine purpose is generally weak enough to have baselined without feeling like your dps from pull to pull is a roll of the dice.

ret is more fun to play outside of wings with divine purpose.

personally, I will go for full procs if I can, but its not necessary to force that on everyone.

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Understandable. I think they do need to do something to smooth out our rotation during non-wings windows though.

I’m fine with downtime if I’m playing poorly. But if I’m playing my rotation well I shouldn’t have moments where I’m sitting there with nothing to press imo

according to caperx SL ret feels pretty close to MoP ret, which can only be good news.

and ive heard from multiple sources i respect that it plays pretty nice out of the box, even before any borrowed power.

ret is one of the few specs people are saying that about so i feel pretty good about that.


the “feedback” here and the HoW discord is complete different…

We have echo chambers here while on the discord there’s some conversation going on and some people agree that we’re in need of more atention on every aspect.

Have at it, praise each other as you will… it’s kinda of futile to talk in these forums.

That said, I formally leave this thread by saying this:

12/12m raiders arent the owners or masters of any truth within the game… you will never change that otherwise we would have another korean mmorpg with a real slow progression.


Came to the same conclusion. I don’t claim that the guys and girls over at HoW know everything, but they care for the spec and call out the problems in a decent manner.
Discussing in this forum is absolute waste of time.


What ret in SL needs:

Re-organization of talents, we should not have holy power spending debuffs/buffs at 3 different brackets in the tree.

Steed: needs to ignore snares/roots. We are riding a horse after all.

Less focus on wing damage

Rework of mastery to make it more interesting. An idea I have is for seals to return and have mastery effect them.

Keep the bfa cd duration or shorten them, increasing dps ability CD’s is not a good way forward.

A defensive cd that only works for the paladins that actually helps.

Cons snare talent or the prots steed pvp talent would be nice.


I mean saying that conduits, soul binds, and covenants will fix the class makes no sense. The class should feel complete without any borrowed power and then should be expanded upon with the addition of these systems. So saying “with covenants their problems are addressed lol”, is just a bad point because the class should be finished without any of these systems imo.