I’d take LFR over M+ at this point. It’s that bad
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It doesn’t have to be. If you’re vetting the groups you join, it’s really not that bad and especially now. Most people outgear most keys nowadays.
Interrupt cooldowns are lower. Should always bring 1 melee dps. Not to mention they still have great cc utilities like Argorwal mentioned. Ring of Peace and AMZ are huge.
I timed a +19 ToP with:
-Prot pally
-Resto sham
-DK
-Monk
-Warrior
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Having a damage meter in FFXIV is tolerated (i.e. don’t ask don’t tell). Posting the damage meter output is prohibited, as is berating someone for not doing enough DPS. Bashing someone for failing mechanics is prohibited, but politely explaining the mechanics so that the group doesn’t wipe the next time around is just fine. There are many more examples, but that should be enough for you to get the picture.
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Reminds me of an underrated comedy classic.
I’m not entirely sure if it’s just battlegroup or not, but I see plenty of keys from high to low on my alliance GF. 
My horde does see more, but I’m not seeing this massive group drought.
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Run your own keys guys. If you host your own you know exactly what the issue is. You get 30+ people applying in a matter of 2-3 minutes.
4-5 times more people applying to keys than running their own.
Banning people for these things in WoW would greatly improve the community, but I can’t imagine there being enough moderation for a community this big.
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That explains why the game’s been dying since 2004, I guess…
The argument is not that it is impossible to do higher keys with melee, its that its less easy and people will always go the route of least resistance. For pugs coordination is usually nill or at least far less than in a coordinated group. Also Ele Shaman has a low cd interrupt, if you had the option of an ele shaman or any of the dps you listed it wouldn’t be logical to take anything else
If there were evenly geared and IO Elemental Shaman or a WW Monk, I would 100% go with the WW Monk. Same is true for a number of different melee classes.
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I don’t think banning them is a good idea. It’s exceedingly rare to run into those people anyway.
Yep it sucks.
The entire concept of M+ is gone. The design killed it, and anyone could have seen this happening a mile away.
Esports combined with an intended casual prog path being more rewarding than end game raiding? Yeah… that will work… it totally wont lead to overwhelming elitism and paid carries.
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What do you mean the concept of M+ is gone? Can you elaborate more in detail?
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Gonna need to explain this one to me. In BfA the highest reward you could get from running dungeons was the same ilvl as heroic raid, with vault being mythic raid.
In SLs you can get, with Valor, 7 ilvls above heroic raid from running m+ and mythic rewards from the vault.
Wouldn’t that mean that m+ is more rewarding in SLs than in BfA?
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M+ exists because there was a huge outcry for a casual progression path for people who didn’t want to commit the time and / or effort to raiding. M+ was the solution to that non existent “problem.”
But then they made it more rewarding than end game raiding at a fraction of the time and effort, then slapped esports on it.
So, the intended casual path turned into the hardcores / elitist pushing the casuals out because it’s insane to expect hardcore players to do more for less rewards when they can do less for way more.
Now there’s tons of posts asking for casual gameplay outlets again.
They ruined their own solution to a problem that never really even existed… because you shouldnt be able to get more for less time commitment.
Anyway, the concept of an alternative, more casual means of end game progression is gone. They designed it so that it obviously would force out casual players… which sucks because that’s who it was meant for.
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The casual path still exists in keys. That’s the nice part about an infinitely scaling system. You’re not going to run into any crazy stuff in midrange keys. You’re not going to run into any “esports” stuff in higher keys either. Pugs won’t ever pull that way.
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I was pugging 100pct of my keys. No set group. No hand holding. And if you were able to complete 14s with pugs in week 2, then you are a god. I was maybe 200 item level going into week 2.
How are they stopping casuals from doing m+ together? Everyone can get a key.
Hardcores not dragging ‘casuals’ through content they’re not ready for is the newest form of gatekeeping, haven’t you heard?
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