Imagine thinking that the players have control over what blizzard does… let alone 3% of the player base (the amount of hardcore raiders their are)
Seriously get off your high house bud.
If players ACTUALLY had an influence on blizzards decision we wouldn’t have conduit energy anymore and the covenant ripcord would have been pulled in beta.
Seriously raiding is the worst way to gear right now, meanwhile m+ all you gotta do is an easily little +14 key a week and you get a mythic quality piece out of it.
Just because some made it doesn’t mean everyone could have. My guess is that, given the mad rush to get new players into end content vs the unlimited time they used to have to learn their class and get into the game, the percentage of new players that broke in without carries is tiny.
We often see players point at some spec that is bottom of the barrel, let’s say how feral often is. They find one guy, ONE GUY who is doing great, and make the bizarre claim that if the best player in the world at that spec is doing great, that means nothing is wrong, even if he’s the only one in the top 1000 dps.
And that’s what you’re doing. There aren’t plenty of new players or casuals trying to break in and succeeding. You’re looking at elites who have connections. Why would they be complaining? It’s the players who have been locked out who are of course complaining. And overwhelmingly they are the ones who have quit after being mocked from being unable to get started by you and your ilk.
People who want a completion based dungeon system don’t prioritize efficiency. They prioritize the experience of the other play-style because it is more fun for them. The “efficiency” group who will gladly skip any boss in any dungeon that isn’t a mandatory pull are motivated by completely different values than those who want the style of dungeon they are describing. I find it interesting that so many who value efficiency so much are so blind to the existence of people who prioritize other values.
Note: I used “prioritize” multiple times. This is intentional and important. People who want the kind of dungeon they are describing ALSO value efficiency, it is simply lower on the list of priorities than the fun they derive from an original Grim Batol style challenge.
If I can do a 15 with a timer and potentially downgrade the key, or do a 15 without a timer and just free win succeed, there’s no choice. There’s no decision making there. And taking away the fail state turns it from a challenge into just another boring Torghast-esque slog.
If you think this is proposing a “free win”, then your imagination or reading comprehension is failing. I like how so many people who don’t like this play-style just seem to think they can rhetoric away the challenge of it. Again, original Grim Batol would like a word.
I never liked fast tanking. Not having a choice, I have adapted. When I first came back, I would have taken the Grim Batol style every time. Now, if both types existed tomorrow, I don’t know which one I would play. I’m not trying to take either side here, but, I find it fascinating how the players who clearly simply prefer speed running simply mentally short circuit at the idea that any other kind of challenge exists, so they proceed to instead insert their own imagined outcome as if it is what the OP actually said.
It wasn’t remotely hard enough to give heroic or mythic raid gear.
And dungeons now provide alternate progression with actual strong gear in every slot. Not a few token badge items from a lower difficulty, living in raiding’s shadow.
That’s what it would go back to. Or the 5 man would be so hard you spend days pulling and wiping 1 dungeon, if not weeks.
I agree with this, but you can’t deny that 220 gear would help to bridge the gap for those on the edge of “casual” to get their KSM. Yet they can’t actually spend their valor on 220 gear until they already have it. It’s a bit backwards.
There is already enough reward inherent to KSM (the mount, as well as the literal and figurative achievement, and the 226 gear from even failing to time the keys) to make it desirable without also gating the ability to spend valor behind it too. The 220 gate should be based on a single +15, not all of them, and certainly not behind doing all of them twice on different weeks in 9.1.
This kind of implies that casuals don’t have the skill required to get KSM without being over geared for it. I believe if casuals wanted KSM, they can get it from the 210 that drops mixed with vault rewards. It will just take longer for casuals than someone running a dedicated group.
False equivalency. I’m not citing original Grim Batol as a 1 for 1 equivalency to raiding. I’m using it as a prime example of design other than a timer being difficult. Also, since we are talking about a parallel to M+, why are we talking about a queue?
If you’re comparing a +15 with a timer vs without a timer, the +15 without a timer is, for all intents and purposes, a free win. Within the first few weeks, people spent I think like 6 or 8 hours and completed a +18 with a bunch of people sub 200 ilvl gear. It is a free win. Remove the timer, and anyone with half a brain can easily clear a 15 given as much time as they want.
Nah, I’m not pulling an Ion here. I’m talking about the folks who, say, want a suboptimal covenant for aesthetic reasons or an off-meta spec/comp to play with their friends. Those are the folks who overgearing the content could help the most. (And considering that +15s drop 226 in the vault, I don’t view 220 as overgearing it anyway.)
The only way this is true is if you are implying the encounter mechanics are the same for both which is not what the OP suggested. Hence, my comment about people implanting their own imagination as what the OP actually said.
During oceanic peak time there’s usually 10-20 groups, but half of them are spam, twitch or carries. Worst I’ve seen was in the raid tab, 17 groups. One was legit.
It’s usually low keys or high keys with no in between.
