I don’t think they would do that. Instanced mob respawns haven’t been a thing since Wrath I think. That was how groups I was in back in the day determined if a run was over or not…if the end boss wasn’t dead and trash started respawning, unless we could get back ahead of it for 1 more pull, run was done.
The point still stands though that timers are not “lazy” or “uninspired”…they literally are crucial to the entire thing and aren’t any different than raid bosses having hard or even soft enrages…otherwise the raid meta would be 2 tanks and enough healers to comfortably heal and the rest DPS to just speed things along…but a mythic boss could concievably be 2 tank and 18 healer comps to ensure absolute minimal chance of failure hence why enrages and such exist.
The journey existed when the game was current, but it sure doesn’t now. Good luck doing any content before 60. There aren’t enough players to sustain that. If you aren’t 60 right now and doing the content, it’s already too late. People aren’t doing quests. They’re forming dungeon grinding groups because it’s more efficient for rep. It wasn’t like that when BC was current.
No. You’re confusing personal goals with direction.
For many, every expansion has been about getting to max level, getting rep, and running end game content.
It wasn’t until boosts were offered that they began removing pieces from the rest of the game and nerfing the value of older expansions to streamline the process of reaching max level.
No more weapon leveling, no more profession building, no more anything that feels like progression outside of the current content. Questing has been sped up as well. There’s no more journey through the levels, and that began at the end of WoD and now we reached a point where leveling is pointless.
For sure, but in a system where completion is the challenge, something has to be done so that completion is actually challenging. I agree with you on the timer. Frankly, the people complaining about it should just ignore it. No other affix can be ignored without making the run more challenging. I’d argue that ignoring the timer makes the run easier lol.
Introducing old mechanics doesn’t seem like a good way to go about it. Maybe they would, but I’d still doubt it.
If anything, they may as well revert dungeons and classes/players to BC/Vanilla status…modern dungeons with modern mechanics but with classic specs/player power…THAT is what made dungeons “hard” back in the day was the fact everyone had far less tools at their disposal and overall gear played a much higher role in how good you was.
Tanks not being able to effectively hold off AOE threat, CC causing aggro and/or heartbeat ticks causing it to break early, healers being very niche in their healing toolkits and lacking options (and cooldowns) to handle varying situations, and dungeons with a laundry list of spells and mechanics that exist today instead of the glorified tank and spank bosses of vanilla and BC.
It’s all hypothetical anyway. M+ is pretty popular from what I understand. An endgame dungeon system without a timer just isn’t going to happen. No one wants to spend significant time in a single dungeon. It’s far too inefficient these days.
I don’t mind the hypothetical argument…but for there to BE an argument, someone has to be able to at least attempt to counter my points (and others) and justify this supposed equally challenging alternative sans timer.
I’m 100% all for options. I advocated (and still do) that valor should apply to all gear and go up to 226…let casuals and solo players have a slow and tedious grind to max level gear…it isn’t like them getting a piece here and there is going to bench some tryhard from their mythic raid team and those same mythic tryhards can get valor cap way faster and upgrade older gear faster anyway.
But what I can’t get behind is the faulty argument that mythic+ timers are for “unskilled and bad players” and that “true challenging dungeons can exist without those timers”. Those types need to go play BC Classic and live out their “challenging dungeon fantasy” while they still can.
I’m hardly a game designer, but there are ways to prevent that kind of abuse, like threat wearing off over time, diminishing returns on misdirect, mobs that start using physical ranged abilities when they get “angry” (they’ve been CC’d/kited for too long), etc.
That said, it would take a rethinking of how dungeons work that’s more deep than anything to date (including M+, which is actually quite surface-level) and is probably out of scope for a game that’s closer to being on maintenance mode every day.
Okay this is stupid. you and the other party are just giving opinions it’s not a fact. It’s personal preference you can’t have an argument where the affinity of the topic is determined by personal preference.
It is a simple premise…describe how a dungeon will be of a very similar or equivalent difficulty to justify it being an alternative to current mythic+. At least the guy above you tried and gave ideas.
So far your kind has said things like “will require CC”…as if current mythic+ doesn’t CC anything (you’d be wrong), “a kill order” (again, assuming current mythic+ doesn’t have kill orders which is hugely wrong), and “hit really hard” (as if mythic+ also doesn’t have things that hit ridiculously hard to the point where some mechanics require coordinating big defensives/immunities to handle)…oh and go ahead and defend against the argument that it would just devolve into a slow donkey grind where anything remotely challenging would just see groups wait until every conceivable cooldown they have is up…can’t do things like the guy above said because those are just timers by a different name (having mobs enrage or do something more if left CC’d or have trash respawn and whatnot).
Okay here are some ideas. Immunities to CC, immunities to interupts after 2 interupts. increasing damage as fight goes on. There are so many ways to do harder dungeons. Add extra mechanics. Etc it can be some people just need have an open mind which doesn’t exist in this forum
The critical difference is that it’s a ton of smaller timers instead of a big monolithic one. It requires careful thought and coordination and could arguably be tuned to be as difficult or more difficult than current M+, but it’s also not so catastrophic when things don’t go quite as planned.
If you wanted you could even sum up performance based on all of those micro-timers to come up with a score that modulates rewards and is more granular instead of binary pass/fail.
Sure, but the timer doesn’t matter when you get all the rewards either way. Completion is more or less a given. What these players want is something easier and they think a system where completion is the challenge will be easier. I don’t think that’s going to be the case lol.
That’s essentially what we have now. The timer doesn’t even really come into it for a while. I just don’t see how a system without a timer can scale. It would reach the point of impossibility far earlier than what’s currently available.
Like I said, if such a mode can be fleshed out and is built, I’ve no problems with it existing.
All you got though really is gimmicks…simple pass/fail mechanics like “kill mob before it is immune to CC and/or squishes the tank”. Any 101 dev can build an unbeatable boss or dungeon…just set the stats so absurdly high or make it immune to damage or whatever other gimmick.
I 100% agree that mythic+ has a real bad flaw mainly aimed at tyrannical but it isn’t as much related to the affix effects itself but rather how a boss consumes far too many resources you can’t get back which doesn’t allow for a key to be recovered unlike fortified where the nature of the wipe allows for a recovery.
I think bosses should stay injured and heal up fairly slowly to encourage groups to get back and pull again…the fact that you could burn bloodlust, pride, and all your big CD’s and spend 2-3 minutes on a fight just to die and be staring at a fully healed boss is the inherently unfair thing that kills keys flat out…at least with fortified, wipes are much quicker and odds are you killed at least 1 or more of the mobs making the recovery and/or runback quicker and easier the next go around.
There is also problems inherent with scoring people based on stuff…a prot paladin would obliterate everyone on interrupts and groups would be encouraged to game the system. For instance, currently my DH guildie will let a buff cast go off because he can eat it if we’re in a pinch and those interrupts can go to other mobs. Is he getting punished or rewarded for that clever move? Could go either way. Plus what if someone wasted an interrupt on something less important just to get a +1 to interrupt score? What if I used an AOE stun because I want a better score instead of waiting to help the tank kite enraged mobs or stop a flurry of mechanics?