Skill bonuses missing in Recraft Items in Crafting Orders

Support Bug Report
1

This is a major bug I discovered today. There’s a huge difference when crafting a fresh item and attempting to recraft someone’s item in crafting orders. You cannot guarantee the same quality in recrafting an item as crafting a fresh version of that same item in a Crafting Order using the same quality of materials due to this skill discrepancy.

Now, if this is intended as a material sink to get people to favor crafting fresh gear, this probably needs to be noted as its not listed anywhere. If not, this bug really needs to be addressed.

6 Likes
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Yeah I’d just like to bump this because I think it’s a serious issue.

For the sake of specificity, I am talking about Dragoncloth Tailoring Vestments here, and I’m curious whether the op is referring to the same item or if this is more widespread. I know at least one person telling me they do not lose out on skill when recrafting, also a tailor but we’re specialized in different things, so I wonder if it’s an item specific issue.

I’m wondering if this is because when recrafting Dragoncloth Tailoring Vestments, you lose out on the ability to include vibrant spellthread as a reagent which might account for the significant skill deficit between the initial craft and the recraft. For me this comes out to a loss of 46 skill. When I recraft other tailoring items, that thread reagent slot does not disappear, though I have only limited items I’m able to test this with.

Effectively, I can craft Rank 4 Dragoncloth Tailoring Vestments, but I cannot recraft Rank 4 Dragoncloth Tailoring Vestments. This feels unwieldy to the point I’m almost certain its unintentional. Please fix, or change, or something.

1 Like
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Big bump here. I noticed only when crafting someone else’s gear that my skill is lower than when recrafting my own gear. seems like a bug.

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4

Gonna bump this again. I noticed this when it came to crafting alchemist stones for people. I’ve been getting recrafting orders and while I can guarantee rank 5 with Illustrious Insight on fresh orders, recrafting orders are unable to reach those skill levels. That’s what motivated me to make this post.

I think it’s coming down to the amount of materials used in recrafting rather than crafting a fresh one. Skill in crafting an item is heavily influenced by material quality, and fresh orders use more materials than recrafting.

So, what’s probably causing this bug is just the fact recrafting uses less materials, it’s not taking what proportion of materials is at a given quality which is what it should be if this current behavior isn’t intended.

1 Like
5

Bump as well. Even if this is intended, this needs to be changed, as some items require spark of ingenuity. I made some mail shoulders at rank 3, but now that I can make them at rank 4, I am unable to recraft the ones I have that high, and making a new one is not an option as spark of ingenuity is limited.

It is definitely due to skill is increased by amount of quality materials, but there just isn’t as high of an amount in recrafting, lowering the maximum skill achieveable.

There likely needs to be a multiplier on mats taking into account the number used in recrafting, and the number used in initial crafting (as well as a flat boost for any materials not needed).

6

Bumping again, looking for a fix or clarification.

7

I can clarify this. This particular aspect of skill bonuses is a bit fiddly to avoid making it advantageous to simply craft something with all Q1 reagents, and then recraft it with all Q3 and get full skill when doing so. If that worked, we would often do that, as the recraft takes somewhere around 40% of the reagents in the original craft…yes it also takes Artisan’s Mettle, but not much.

So the way this works is the item “remembers” the quality of the reagents you crafted with. Let’s say the original item can give you 100 skill from reagents. In this world, if you craft with all Q3, you get +100 skill. If you craft with all Q2 you’d get +50 skill, and all Q1 and you’d get 0 skill.

Let’s say you craft the item with all q1 reagents. You got 0 skill.

Now if you recraft using all q3 reagents, you’ll get +40 skill. It’s effectively “replaced” 40% of the old q1 reagents with q3. Recraft again with q3 and it’ll go up to +80 skill…you’ve replaced another 40%, meaning you are at 80% q3, 20% q1. Finally do it a last time, and you’ll get 100% bonus skill again, +100 skill in this case. It works in the opposite way as well. If you recraft with lower quality reagents again, you will replace some of the best reagents with bad ones again.

So in this case if you crafted originally with all q3, you’d be getting +100. If you recraft with q1, you’d replace 40% of those with q1’s, so you’d get +60 skill. But luckily if you recraft again with Q1, it’ll just replace the old Q1, so you’d stay at +60 skill. If you then recrafted with Q3 again, you’d go back to +100 again.

Here’s a picture example:

Initial craft with all q1 (+0 skill from reagents):
image

First recraft with all q3 (+40 skill from reagents):
image

Second recraft with q3 (+80 skill from reagents):
image

Final recraft with all q3 (+100 skill from reagents):
image

Hopefully that helps clear things up!

-Drough

9 Likes
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For our own stuff, in theory, we’d need to re-craft 3 times to get the full amount if we did the original craft with all Rank 1 mats?

But if we did all Rank 3 mats, then we’re SOL on re-crafting until we add finishing re-agents or get more points?

3 Likes
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Can I just ask for a clarification, since I’m a math nerd - on the example second recraft here, the existing item is effectively 60% Q1 and 40% Q3 - are we sure the incoming 40% Q3 recrafting mats only replace the Q1 mats and are not spread evenly across the craft, ie 24% replacing Q1 mats and 16% just overwriting existing Q3s?

Essentially are you sure 3 recrafts with Q3 guarantees 100% Q3 or does it only asymptote to 100% since there is always some lingering remnant of Q1 in there?

Because it can get way more complicated (ie an existing item with a mix of Q1/2/3 mats and a recraft with a mix also) and people really care about exact numbers on this kind of thing.

2 Likes
10

I explained the fantasy of it as “remembering”, but really it’s only remembering numbers. So in general if you are in a state where you are providing better reagents than are in there now, you are going to end up with whatever the +skill was from the last time it was crafted/recrafted, plus whatever the calculated recraft contribution is for the reagents you are currently using.

Again this is designed to fill the goal of making it worth it to initial craft something with Q3 reagents, while being able to get your item to max quality possible even if you didn’t.

I’ll leave it to an exercise in experimentation and math to figure out more details beyond that. Perhaps one could glean some profit out of figuring out how it exactly works!

-Drough

2 Likes
11

Thank you very much for this clarification. Give my respect to whoever designed this system because it seems well thought out and preserves the effort of making and using t3 materials throughout all processes.

1 Like
12

Hard to understand, hard to master.

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13

So this means that, if you use a spark or training matrix and don’t use max quality ingredients on accident, the spark/matrix is now wasted with no way of fixing the issue.

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It’s not hard to fix, it’ll just take a number of recrafts with high quality materials to overwrite the lesser quality materials previously used. This obviously incentivizes just using high quality materials to begin with in the initial craft, even if you cannot guarantee tier 5.

1 Like
15

i like the fantasy of being able to craft things without having to read a dnd style hand book before hand or risk hampering myself in the long run. The crafting system didn’t need to be anywhere near this bloated, it feels like 3 or 4 different systems instead of one.

6 Likes
16

Reading this explanation made my head spin. You guys really went overboard with the crafting revamp and made it very difficult to engage with, especially by players who are typically not interested in crafting (which, lbr, has been almost everyone for the longest time since professions were pretty pointless until DF).

Kudos for at least trying to make it engaging though. I wish the team working on the talent tree revamps had put in a fraction of the effort y’all did.

4 Likes
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What a “this was designed by an Engineer moment”! Mathmatically, it makes sense and solves the issue of people using cheap mats initially then recrafting with expensive mats once.

It clearly wasn’t passed through a UX designer though. In no way is this communicated in game and it absolutely should be. It should be clearly indicated to users how much skill they are losing when using one * materials, how much they gain when using 3* in the initial craft, how much they gain in by using 3* in the recraft and how much is still left to gain when using a 3* in a recraft.

I’d suggest segmenting the quality bar to display the amount of quality granted by the materials with a translucent ‘possible quality when using 3*’ that is clearly explained when you scroll over the translucent potion.

9 Likes
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Extremely frustrating that this was not communicated in the interface anywhere. Many of us have already crafted our pieces using our first sparks (which are obviously the most important of the expansion) and learning about this after the fact. I am sure I’m not the only one who would have made very different choices on materials if I knew in any way that the original materials effected Recraft.

2 Likes
19

I can clarify this. This particular aspect of skill bonuses is a bit fiddly to avoid making it advantageous to simply craft something with all Q1 reagents, and then recraft it with all Q3 and get full skill when doing so. If that worked, we would often do that, as the recraft takes somewhere around 40% of the reagents in the original craft…yes it also takes Artisan’s Mettle, but not much.

Problem is, you’ve traded the ability to save resources for the ability to lose them. In your example the initial craft required 3 Chronocloth bolts. Your 3 separate recrafts resulted in having to add 6 Chronocloth bolts in order to get the system to fully recognize full quality. That’s a net loss of 100% material by starting out low quality and recrafting higher.

While you’re in the mood of answering questions, can you tell us how many skill points reagents can add to a craft? Is it always +100, as in your example?

2 Likes
20

Say what? Way too confusing of a system. I’ll stick with gathering until they come out with something that doesn’t need an instruction manual to understand.

1 Like