Yeah I follow. (Didn’t know that bit about all rank 3 mats = +70 skill).
Crafting feels like I’m solving a convoluted story problem.
Well to be fair that 25% thing really just boils down to “use max rank materials for max quality result”, assuming the crafter is also maxxed in all they can do. So you don’t actually need to know the specific 70 points. I just finds it helps me to visualize it if I go through the points ( I like math ).
What gets really intersting is recrafts. Like if someone crafts something with rank 2 or lower mats and then tries to recraft later (even with rank 3 mats) then there is a good chance you can’t max it on the first try. The game keeps track of the mats you used so it knows that less quality mats were used until you recraft it enough to replace all the rank 1/2 mats with rank 3 mats.
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Yes, if you are maxed out and they add the highest skill difficulty reagent then guaranteed 5-star craft is not an option. How I handle this with crafts is I tell them that when adding those reagents no craft can be a guaranteed 5-star on the first craft. I.e. 4 and 1/2 star with a 40% inspire chance, continue? Give it to them straight, eventually players requesting crafts are going to learn there will still be some RNG when adding increased skill requirement reagents. You can also utilize https://www.wowhead.com/item=191529/illustrious-insight to increase your skill level.
Thanks, that was the conclusion I eventually came to. I’ve maxed out the entire Garmentcrafting and Tailoring Mastery trees; there is nowhere left I can dump points to add skill. My only conclusion was that this was a case, as you described, where no one would be able to guarantee rank 5 without an inspiration proc. Good to know, spread the word.
I think a lot of players are still operating under the idea that we’re at a point where you can guarantee rank 5 for anything…
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That is the reason why I crafted the BiS hammer for Blacksmithing with Inspiration stats as well as enchanted with Inspiration. Have on occasion procced inspire from a flat 4 star to a 5 star.
There is confusion somewhere because:
Everything in Tailoring can be a guaranteed Rank 5 craft. It requires all R3 materials, embellishment, and missive, and requires blue/epic crafting tools, and an Insight, but it can be done.
Keep in mind here that re-crafting also takes the history of the reagents into account. So if they send you a re-craft for an item with rank 3 reagents that they originally crafted with all rank 2 reagents, the rank 3s can only replace 40% of the originally-lost skill from not using rank 3s. In that scenario it would take 3 re-crafts to fully max the bonus skill out.
The OP didn’t mention where it was a re-craft or not but that is a possible reason why the craft could not be guaranteed with an Aspect crest and embellishment.
EDIT: Here’s the original developer clarification I’m referring to regarding re-crafts.
If this is the case, I cannot find where I am missing points. Nowhere, not in any of the tailoring trees. I have all blue/epic crafting gear, all rank 5 (not that that matters). Insight left me just shy of guaranteed rank 5.
It was not a recraft.
So let’s try something different.
When you open your Tailoring UI and go down to Vibrant Wildercloth Shawl, what value does your Skill line on the right say with nothing in your bags?
So here is a breakdown. I hopped on my tailoring alt, was able to guarantee a rank 5 cloak for a guildie. First thing is check the difficulty score of the craft. If they are using rank 3 embellishments and rank 3 missives then this is worst case:
280 difficulty from base difficulty
50 difficulty from aspects crest
25 difficulty from rank 3 embellishment
15 difficulty from rank 3 missive
----------------------------------
370 total difficulty to craft vibrant wildercloth shawl
So first step is to look at the difficulty score. If it is higher than 370, then the person placing he order is not using rank 3 missive or rank 3 embellishment
Next is to look at your skill for the craft. If they are using all rank 3 materials, then it should breakdown like this (I verified on my tailor):
100 skill from 100/100 skill
26 skill from epic tailoring vestments (10), rare needle set (6), rare fabric cutters (10)
40 skill from 30/30 garment crafting
50 skill from 50/50 outerwear
20 skill from 10/10 cloaks
40 skill from 30/30 tailoring mastery
30 skill from illustrious insight
70 skill from all rank 3 mats (25% of 280 base difficulty)
------------------------------
376 total available skill to craft vibrant wildercloth shawl
If you have less than 376 skill, then you are missing something from that list. Carefully go over each line item and verify you score.
Hopefully that helps you nail it down. I verified all of the above on my tailoring alt.
Just want to reiterate that this is not the case. Every craft can be guaranteed at max rank if max rank materials and optional reagents are used. I’ve maxxed out all of the professions and have guaranteed max on everything (as long as I have an insight available to use). No inspiration proc needed at all for any item.
There was a time in ancient past where some weapons couldn’t be guaranteed max ilvl with embellishment, but blizzard eventually fixed this during season 2 ish.
Sorry for the long winded post. Hopefully it helps. If not, maybe we can hop on to discord together and you share your screen and we can go through everything with a fine toothed comb and maybe figure it out.
This was like a week ago, late at night. I don’t recall exactly all of what the guy had. I am fairly certain I have all of what is outlined to total 376 fulfilled. I don’t know, I am at work.
Scrutinizing the details of a story I don’t even recall with complete clarity is rather tangential to the purpose of the thread; which has been addressed. I appreciate the thoroughness of the response.
I think I’m done with professions this expansion.
On BS I once had a guildie ask for a max 486 with an embellishment and pvp reagant, and I noticed that for the first time, I was just shy of a guarantee with insight. I lit some incense, used stable fluidic whatever, and rolled the dice. Thankfully it worked.
Anyway, if it’s one of the four professions I’ve made sure to max fully: " Yeah, 5 star, guaranteed", and then sweat bullets at the crafting table on my own. I don’t make that guarantee if I don’t feel I could get it over the hump on a recraft with my own mats though.
Thanks Hambrick!
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So I hopped on my BS (my main, so it is my best profession). I had a bunch of left over mats from crafting I started this week that I didn’t finish up yet. I went through all of my epic patterns (I have all of the DF epic BS patterns) and was able to guarantee max rank on all of them (I didn’t hit craft…want to keep my mats, but I put all the mats in with a spare aspects crest, rank 3 miss, rank 3 embellish, and insight, looked at the result and I always had >= enough skill to match the difficulty). Do you remember which pattern it was you had trouble with? I could go through the point breakdown for it and maybe we can see what caused you to be short.
Note that the PvP reagent doesn’t add any difficulty so it is skill neutral and won’t affect anything.
Note that if it was a recraft and they skimped on the mats on earlier crafts that the game remembers and lowers the skill you get from reagents until you recraft it enough with rank 3 mats to overwrite the old ones.
Yep yep, sorry! I saw you had responded recently so I thought it was still on ongoing thing for you. My apologies.
I don’t recall what it was tbh, and my equipment is all maxxed, I have the purple hammer, my knowledge is all filled out, it was not a first craft for me, all mats were 3 star. It might have been the 2 hander that requires the shadowflame anvil?
Weapons can’t have the pvp trophy on them. If you were using an insight and were still short, then you weren’t maxed, as it’s only 3 points off of guaranteed (well below the 30 points an insight gives) without one at 486 if you’re a non LFD or dark iron and 2 points over guaranteed if you have the +5 skill racial.
It’s also likely they used a rank 2 missive, which adds 5 points of difficulty to the craft. Or if it was a recraft they used a lower rank mat somewhere in the past (that can drop the skill a few points as well).
The 2H from the shadowflame anvil is definitely guarantee-able. I actually just did one for a public order on my realm (5k commission yay!). No problems doing a full 486 on it.
If it does happen again, please take a screenshot of the craft and start up a thread here with it. I’m sure we can figure it out. I can definitely say as of Season 2 you can guarantee all crafts at max rank with insight.
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In which case, can’t really recall what item I was crafting, I recall remarking on the pvp reagent because I rarely see it used on orders.
Unless I’m missing anything, I’m pretty sure I’m maxed though; skill trees are full, and my BS equipment is:
Black Dragon Touched Hammer ilvl 398
+152 Inspiration+ Enchanted +40 inspiration
Khaz’gorite Blacksmith’s toolbox ilvl 372
+44 resourcefulness
+44 crafting speed
Flameproof Apron ilvl 372
+53 Inspiration
+35 Multicraft
As it happens my BS is a dark iron. I simmed myself using crafsims, and I’ll be honest, I’ve never theorycrafted professions so I’m unclear why my Skill varies from recipe to recipe (most armor showed at 358, some items at 347); the only first crafts I have left are for pvp specific pieces. (verdant, obsidian, crimson) Am I missing any opportunities to optimize?
One reason your skill can show up different for different items is that they have different base difficulties and that contributes to how much skill you get from materials for them. For example, assuming all rank 3 materials for Primal Molten Legplates will give you 70 skill (25% of base difficulty of 280). However you will get 81.25 skill points from the Frostfire Legguards of Preparation (25% of base difficulty of 325).
That’s a difference of 11.25 skill points which will show up as 11 skill points in the UI (display rounds). Notice how 358 - 347 is 11, so I would assume that is what you are seeing most likely.
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This was the most likely reason the OP couldn’t guarantee rank 5 on the first recraft, if it was a recraft.
The system needs a method to check this prior to putting it into the crafting window.