Sira Moonwarden & becoming Forsaken

Community General Discussion
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Let’s hope you’re right.

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This is the most perfect example contrasting the old and new writing teams that I have ever seen. +1 to you.

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Laughing hysterically

…and today’s winner of the Internet is…

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This right here, if only those idiot devs could understand this describes their ‘work’ perfectly.

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There is actually an item that suggests mind control.
The item is called Brynja’s Beacon;

“It is said that only the most powerful can dominate the wills of the risen.”.

Brynja also happens to be one of the Valkyr that helps the players in Darkshore raising night elves as forsaken.

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166

The free will given to the forsaken is at Sylvannas’ disgression. She has no obligation to give all forsaken free will, and in fact it has been made clear multiple times in the lore that she has denied free will to some. Those who she knows will never be loyal to her o. Their own accord, she denies free will and forces loyalty. The Val’kyr are very much capable of this. When she specifically targets a high ranking member of the Alliance, she does so with the intention of forcing their loyalty. This is done to demoralize the alliance and as a show of force.

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167

Is she the one Tyrande kills, I can’t remember.

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Then you’d think she wouldn’t bother being nice to the Kul Tirans and just force their hand. Then again none of them are Dark Rangers whose loyalty to Sylvanas is forced.

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169

Yes she is! :slight_smile:

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170

Good. Just gotta clean up the traitors then and Darkshore can be forgotten.

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I just finished this scenario on Horde and Alliance. It’s a low point for WoW, in my opinion. Warning: incoming salt.

Everything about how they’ve been raised, how quickly they convert to being “forsaken”, the fact there is no reconciliation of their former self to their new self… it’s awful. If you’ve done some of the starting undead zone quests you’ll recall Lillian Voss and her struggles… with such a strong Night Elf character I would have expected more from Sira.

Nathanos is an awful character. Twirling his mischievous, evil-looking mustache and all.

The fact that Tyrande doesn’t hunt his undead carcass down and totally destroy him… after receiving the night warrior’s wrath… come on. She thirsts for blood and she’s all… no we will regroup. What garbage.

I’m also fed up with the undead Horde. I’m an on-again, off-again Horde player but the let’s-blight-everything Horde is stupid. The orcs, trolls, elves, tauren… all of them should be all like - ummm, yeah, we’re out. You idiots have fun with that blighting, raising fresh undead stuff.

I honestly have no idea what’s going on at Blizzard. It feels like they’re trying to do all the things and doing none of the things adequately. Then they tell us to wait and see.

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‘Forgotten’? No.
Remembered always and in every respect; for so much has happened there.

ANDU TELDRASSIL!
ANDU DARKSHORE!

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Honestly it feels like whether a Forsaken has or doesn’t have free will is based on what the quest/story calls for.

Lilian Voss had free will when we first met her and she went on to do her own one woman revenge take down on the Scarlet Crusade. Then afterwards she popped up a few times in other quests before choosing to rejoin the Horde. Which points to having free will.

Then there’s Thomas Zelling who choose to became Forsaken to protect his family and keeps helping out Rexxar and Voss because of that deal he made. Again pointing to free will.

But then there’s Ambermill village that was an Alliance friendly town, but when the populace was killed and raised as Forsaken they all rushed to Sylvanas side in a heart beat which would say no free will because they quickly joined with their former enemy.

And with the Night Elves being raised as Dark Rangers, Sira and Delaryn’s thoughts may be what led them to easily join up with their former enemies, but to have all the other risen Night Elves quickly join and not run away or find someway to die again instead of serving Sylvanas points again to not having free will.

The one outlier I can only think of with the situation though is Captain Amalia Stone. After being turned Forsaken, Lilian Voss had to keep talking to her to convince her to help the Horde.

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174

I’d say that logically speaking, death is traumatizing: Sira died violently, which would be a massive shock to the system, then she doesn’t get the afterlife she was promised, but is instead launched into a state of undeath. So, much like WOW, it’s like she was broken and hastily reassembled, with little care for the intricacies, just so long as you had a working body and a functional mind.

In the Horde storyline, we bring back a guy who volunteers to be Forsaken, and he doesn’t come out of it completely sane.

Sylvanas could be in possession of an item that bends all undead to her will. Or it could just be lazy writing.

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Also the lulz of the Dark Ranger Night Elves thinking they are escaping a fate have only sealed it when they are all cut down and sent to traitor hell. Bad choice if they did that willingly. If they are mind controlled on the other hand…

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Everything you’re stating here are gaps that you’re attempting to fill in the story that is left by Blizzard. I don’t agree or disagree with you but I think it’s important to note that when we have significantly differentiating nuances in the story that are left unaccounted, it’s up to the imagination of the player to fill it in.

I believe that given the amount and magnitude of polarizing actions taken in this expansion this makes the story telling feel that much worse.

I don’t like playing Night Elves now because they’re constantly wrung through the mud and I hate playing my Horde characters because they have to be okay with the blights. Maybe time to not play for awhile…

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As I have said, it is looking extremely likely their wills have been dominated by the Valkyr given the tiny hint of lore given by the toy the Horde get. I’m 80% certain at this point it is genuine mind control.

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178

Sure, or what Sylvanas needs from them. If you’re raising recently fallen enemies to fight for you against their former allies, you should probably use a form of mind control. Raising new Forsaken citizens in Deathknell? No mind control, since they are given a choice to join Forsaken society or not. Voss was among this latter group.

I see nothing wrong with this, but some argue that absolutely no Forsaken should ever be mind controlled as it goes against their racial identity or something. Sylvanas promised no mind control, so no mind control. And Sylvanas is absolutely among the most trustworthy of people on Azeroth :laughing:

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These aren’t casual civilians or untrained recruits. These are soldiers with thousands of years of experience.

Thousands of years of standing between the horrors of war, violence, nightmare and darkness and their people. Of holding that line and fighting those evils. Often times, literally fighting nightmare and darkness.

Simple doubt in a diety happens every day. Death and loss of civilians and failures in command happen all the time and these warriors have been facing these for THOUSANDS of years.

The issue, and where Blizzard horribly failed at, is explaining how the loyalty and dedication, how the faith and shown commitment to their duty, to their people could so easily be cast aside. Where is THAT doubt? Where is THAT loss of faith? That is what makes the change so pathetically stupid.

For this, implication is not good enough. Vague fan assumptions are not good enough. We need to see cut and dry, in game, direct, no questions reasons that makes them join the Forsaken, the very ones able to break a soldier that not even the forces of the Legion were capable of to the point they WILLINGLY join that enemy in the continual holocaust against their people, on the level needed to be that hardcore of a betrayal.

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Just played through the horde side scenario, Sira is very cagey about why she took the rez. “We all have our reasons”

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