In the book.
Because neither Sira nor Delaryn have their own wills intact. Itâs understandable that their faith in Elune might be shaken, but completely ridiculous that theyâd start fighting for Sylvanas and gladly slaughter their once-fellow night elves. If the story wants to insist they do still have free will, itâs simply poor writing and inconsistent with the way undeath has previously been portrayed in the lore.
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I feel that the devs/writers just wanted an excuse to fill a spot for a warfront boss. In battle of darkshore you face off against both Sira and Delaryn. I think mainly it got out of hand trying to come up with plot armor for sylvannas.
less of poor writing
more of poor understanding
Your knowledge of undeath is not as extensive as you seem to think it is.
Feel free to elaborate then.
Iâd like to put out there that this is purely my own opinion, and I am fairly late to this thread so others might have already stated it. But, those two big lore alliance characters to their people had to go witness their entire home burnt down with thousands upon thousands being burnt with them. The very goddess who has made herself known multiple times to her people did nothing to help that situation and everyone simply had to watch knowing there was nothing they could do to save them. No prayers being answered, no help being sent, nada. That would do a lot to someoneâs faith knowing the very person they worship simply watched as those people who put so much faith in them simply watched as they died. And, that could have easily been the tipping point of that very faith being destroyed. Theyâve lived for a very long time, and for multiple other situations like this to happen isnât impossible, therefore this might have simply been the final straw for them.
Another thing is that there is obvious capabilities to control the mind as seen from the Lich King, though itâs not actually confirmed that Sylvanas herself can do this, nor any other forsaken person. So, it is a possibility, itâs just not confirmed nor denied. It most definitely could be a factor as to why theyâre suddenly so okay with being a Forsaken.
Edit: Other points Iâd like to make is that in the Game (though not clarified if this happened outside of the game, if so I might not have actually read it or skimmed over it, and I apologize for this) Tyrande hadnât exactly done much in the way of help either. You donât exactly see her that present in the time leading up to the burning of Teldrassil to my memory other than her coming to save Malfurions butt and hearthstoning them out of there⌠Says a lot about their leader, donât you think?
And again, no help was sent by the very faction theyâre aligned with. Iâd assume if I were them, I wouldnât be trying to cozy up and ask for help from anyone I just listed now despite having faith in those people before.
I admire your candor good sir.
I also tip my hat to at least the acknowledgement about their crisis of faith.
The key element that I think that is missing from your conceptual framework of this sudden transformation is that, she does not recognize the night elves as her people any longer.
Most cultures exist on a pyramid structure of values, which can be summed up in three parts
1.fellow man
2.laws/heroes
3.gods deities.
Stage 1: People are just people. There is nothing special about them, they are like you, but there is no love for them.
Stage 2: Recognizes that people are more than people, and thus laws are put in place to govern our interactions with people.
Stage 3: Builds upon step 2 in recognizing that these laws stem from transcendental laws put forth by divine beings.
By losing faith, Sira and Delaryn lost stage 3. With the destruction of the world tree, stage 2 was literally and figuratively demolished, meaning that only the bottom of the pyramid is left, where there is no longer a connection to her âpeople.â They might as well have been a memory of a memory of a dream
And this is the important part. Sira and Delaryn donât blame Sylvannus for the death of her people. Their vengence is directed towards those pillars which were supposed to protect her people; tyrande, and the goddess. If those two forces were unable to prevent the devastation, then the whole paradigm falls apart, and a sense of nihilism and vengeance fills the gaps where hope and belief used to exist.
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Sylvannas lacks Nerzuhls power, she canât mindcontrol anyone.The valkyr are no different. Also Sira/Delaryn and the other nightelves are raised by the players with the valkyr. Sylvannas isnât even there. Even when Derek Proudmoore was raised with Sylvannas being there. She couldnât control him. Tons of bad writing, remember Arthas? Sylvannas wanted to attack him but couldnât until later on after the Nathrezim helped her unshackle herself from his control. BFA has a ton of hack/bad writing and players are noticing it. Personally , just waiting for activ to replace the writers with there own team at this point. I give up trying to follow any lore/story that is set by the current team.
Itâs just game mechanics vs story mechanics.
If this were a scenario in a book, the author would have more time and space to characterize the struggle and the turn. Actually, in Before the Storm, Golden goes into this topic a bit in discussing what degrees of mental capacity the Forsaken lose in their transition.
Because itâs a game and canât be detailed as greatly, it has to be skipped over in favor of getting into the game. And, thanks to the Lillian Voss questline in Kul Tiras, a lot of this âcontentâ was already shown. To show it again in the Darkshore scenario would just be re-covering old ground.
And, sad to say, there is a large majority of WoW players that really donât care about the story, so the devs have to maintain a balance and sacrifice some elements for flow of game play.
Agree with you poor storytelling hope they can clear this up somehow everyone in my guild is as confused as you to why would someone loyal turn against here own people. If she lost her faith in Elune, fine, go find something else you can do for the Alliance and be a atheist.
It wasnât just in Elune they lost faith, it was in Tyrande too. First was her abandoning her people when she ran away too âbe with her love!â Then in the fight, Sira kept saying that Tyrande was coming that she (Ty) would be there to save all (paraphrased) but in the end, Tyrande did not come, she was too late.
Here is the proof - go full screen and read the chat window. I did the share for the entire Tyrande and Sira conversation. Tyrande says âfight the shadows in your hearts!!â and in essence Sira says screw you and hereâs why.* Btw save for them saying they are Forsaken, their dialogue has not changed, or at least from when I did the quest the other night.:
*If youâve never felt entirely completely abandoned and betrayed, you may not understand why Sira and Delaryn accepted undeath. On the other hand if you can at least understand why, even if you do not approve or accept the reason, then the story itself may not leave such a bad taste in your âmouthâ as it were.
And remember, there are many parts of the story that many of us either do not appprove or find hard to accept. Thatâs the nature of things not âpoor writingâ, or âlazy writingâ, etc. Creative types will never please everyone or even the majority of everyone. The stories they write, even in video games are based on the what the authors and their teams agree are enjoyable. When they launch/publish the stories, it is their hope like any writersâ that their readers will come along for the journey and enjoy it. But sometimes it just doesnât happen that way. To judge any creative endeavor as âpoorâ, âlazyâ or other similar, you must believe you know exactly what the artists felt, meant, and did. Unless you know that, just be honest and say you donât care for it, hate it, loathe it, and so forth.
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I am a consumer of that art and one that provides monetary support for it. The complaint isnât that âI donât like the direction.â The complaint is, âYou are doing a piss poor job of writing the story in a believable, clear, concise, and consistent narrative that guides us, the paying audience, in that direction.â
The story writing has failed and what we have to show for it is comparative to a grade school play in depth, in belief, and in entertainment. A failure in execution for a multi billion dollar company.
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I take it you havenât seen game of thrones spoiler alert jon snow gets betrayed his on men and gives not a frick about them after
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I wouldnât necessarily say all of it is bad writing. I do think that perhaps they leave a bit too much to interpretation or skepticism rather than adding more information. And, I do believe they donât really portray information correctly or justifiably on occasions that leads to further confusion, but that isnât all the time.
Furthermore, I donât think itâs required to make straightforward writing all the time. Not everyone does that in any form of literature, and often it is up to the reader to actually take the piece however they saw it. Sure theyâll try to send a message, but sometimes itâs not so clear. And perhaps thatâs something that Blizzard often likes to do. We canât be too certain of this, or at least I canât be. But not all writing is straight forward writing. Regardless, that only takes out one of my theories. The fact that they were abandoned by literally everyone when it came to help seems like a more fitting explanation as to why they were so willing in the first place.
They werenât abandoned. There were still nightelves there fighting along side of them. Some of which that survived the attack. Yet some how it makes sense that Sira ,Delarn and others would attack those night elves as well? Ones that fought along side of them that managed to escape?! Doesnât give just reason for them to turn against the rest of there people when there just upset at Tyrande, Maiev and Elune. Hack writing and i am hoping activision steps in and gets rid of these writers for the better of the game.
Sira really strikes me as bad, or rushed, writing altogether. Given EVERYTHING the Forsaken had done to the Night Elves, Sira should have kept fighting the Forsaken in undeath. After all they were the ones to burn Teldrassil.
Elune abandoning the Night Elves is a flimsy excuse at best. Just come out and say she was mind controlled, or have her go rogue to fight the Forsaken in her own way. The way the Wardens have been portrayed I wouldnât think a little thing like death would stop them from completing their mission, or just outright defecting.
It was just a crappy attempt at copying Cordanaâs story. She had build up to her turning and then joining the Legion.
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They technically were, at least from a lot of perspectives. You even see this is how Sira feels when you do the Darkshore Warfront. Thus confirming my thoughts entirely. Anduin didnât bother to send anyone to fight with them, it was simply the Kaldorei that were fighting for their land to not be destroyed. Tyrande ended up hearthstoning Malfurion out because he was to be executed, thus leaving them without a leader for a time being. All of the so called âleadersâ practically lead them to their death without Elune to have even saved them what so ever.
Not at all, technically all Hordes are to blame for this as no one tried to at all stop them. Sure they yelled at her that it was madness, but no one actually went out of their way to stop anything. Therefore, the Forsaken arenât solely to blame for this.
Another thing, is it isnât a flimsy excuse at all. If you felt abandoned, all alone to watch everything you know and love to be burned and crushed beneath you with 0 help, youâd be pretty damn angry too, and you wouldnât want anything to do with the people that essentially lead you to your own death even if you were so loyal and willing to die for them in the first place. If they felt that they were lead there to die, and those leaders didnât actually die with them because they saved their own butts? Yeah, no⌠I wouldnât want to be on their side either.
And again, Elune has made it very apparent that sheâs an existing deity who can do plenty of things. The fact that she decided to grace Tyrande and everyone else with her vengeance after everything happened? Well, thatâs pretty crappy donât you think?
You can be a Warden and still have your own feelings, just because youâre this person who would do anything to complete their mission doesnât mean they canât feel however they choose to feel. Itâs humanity.
Edit: Iâd like to add that when you do the Darkshore Warfront, even Maiev understands why Sira chose to side with the Undead when you go to confront her and Sira points out that she felt abandoned. When someone feels abandoned you canât tell them no they donât feel that way, or no thatâs silly. Itâs a genuine feeling they conceived during the situation.
This sentence caught my attention and I had to respond.
The purpose of storytelling is to tell a story (to note the obvious). As someone who writes fiction, I can tell you that my ultimate aim is not to project what I personally feel or think - its to show what the characters feel and think. The writers of the story of this expansion can do that exactly the same way any author does: by word and deed of their characters. While we donât get the in-depth perspective of reading a novel (where we can see their thoughts or their emotions) we can still have explanations provided in text for important actions or story pointsâŚsuch as why Person A would do something so very at odds with their apparent normal behaviour.
In the case of WoW, it is in effect rather like a very distant third party perspective novel. We donât know what has happened off stage to make people do the things they do and Blizzard will probably spring things on us to clarify storypoints that appear lazy or bad writing now. An example: Volâjin appointing Sylvanas as warchief appears to have been a very bad strategic decision but its likely his decision to do that wasnât entirely normal. There are a lot of pages of the story unrevealed.
![:australia:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/australia.png?v=6" ":australia:")
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As someone who also writes fiction I would agree. However, the point of that statement is that unless the critic has had private conversations with the creative one (or in this case the writer) to say that their writing is âpoorâ or âlazyâ or -insert adjective- is unacceptable. That is making a judgment call on the personâs motive and no one has the right to make that judgment unless they are the originator or have heard them say that the word in their own mind is poor or they were just being lazy or whatever.
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True⌠but, that was not the point I was making.
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Which is one of the reasons why I object to personal judgment calls on what the writer wrote.
I find it much more honest and productive to simply say, âI donât like -or whatever adjective- this or that becauseâŚâ rather than âThis is lazy writing becauseâŚâ My immediate reaction is âOh really? You the know writer was being lazy because you talked to them about it, stood over their shoulder and watched, did their editing and they refused all your correctionsâŚ??â
Personally I donât care one way or another if someone likes the xpac or not. We all have our subjective tastes and expectations. But getting âpersonalâ about a writerâs motivations because your (not meaning you personally) expectations were not met, well, they do say thatâs why people (particularly couples) argue. Not getting oneâs expectations met can be really annoying and some people unthinkingly lash out and attack someone on a personal level.
And that to me is all this âpoor writingâ and et al just says - âIâm angry and I want to hurt the one Iâm really angry at so Iâm going to get all -ahem- and do what I can to make sure they understand that my all important expectations were not met. That is not acceptable!â