I gave you an entire list of Horde characters they’ve killed off for being evil- yet you refuse to accept that. There’s really no point in discussing it if you’re just going to say ‘no that doesn’t count’ to everything.
Why does this whataboutism matter? Both sides have lost a ton of people, both good and bad. Nobody at the top on alliance is the same as in vanilla or did you forget about Nefarian, Onixya, Benetictus, Fandral, etc? This is a dead line of argument.
She’s still ending up dead- we knew that the moment she became warchief, we just didn’t know when.
Your list doesn’t mean anything, you are being pigheaded and ignoring the details a surrounding each of those things. Additionally your list is wrong anyway Orgrimm Doomhammer wasn’t killed being evil, neither was Grom, Blackfuse is irrelevant, Varimathras is akin to Lady Prestor, aka Onyxia, and Putress? Really? you’re reaching there.
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“Horde heroes never die!”
Me -“But here’s all these Horde heroes that died”
“omg whataboutism!”
Like seriously? If someone makes a claim, and I prove it wrong- that’s not whataboutism, that’s proving an obviously false claim wrong.
Being sarcastic: “But she’s already dead!”. Also this game has a bad habit of killing leaders it tends to be what happens in this sort of drama.
Well you went from a discussion about Sira… to “what about the horde leaders that have been killed as evil” which is completely orthogonal and irrelevant.
That would be satisfying.
You used the term orthogonal! ![:blush:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/blush.png?v=6" ":blush:")
As a mathematician, I love that you’ve used it in this manner, especially because the derail is the cross-product of Sira’s vector (a betrayal) and the Slain Warchief vector (betrayals). While the two share a common plane, projecting a line off the surface points nowhere except the node of their intersection.
I suspect the goal is to draw another plane parallel to the first, perhaps to justify Sira’s betrayal as foreshadowing of an event to come on the other faction (Saurfang?). So… it’s not entirely off-topic, it just seems the argument requires more points of reference to generate said plane.
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Wow this thing is still going?
Anyway even if they were Mind controlled undeath still automatically reserves them a seat in void hell.
Yea, but I wouldn’t be wanting to send them there.
I kind of miss the old Forsaken, the guys who broke free of the Lich King’s domination and did questionable things in their pursuit of vengeance against him.
Now without a goal to strive towards they are just another Scourge.
I wonder what the Forsaken society would look like if Sylvanas hadn’t exterminated a good chuck of the Desolate Council. From what I read most of those guys were pretty chill, wanting to simply rot away in peace.
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Such lazy story writing is why WoW movies will never win a Golden Globe ( or any prestigious award like it).
Some who are brought back into undeath retain some of their previous loyalties, but it certainly isn’t a common theme for most.
Think of what happens when you are raised as an undead and compare it to what happens with Fel.
Every single race we have ever encountered across the cosmos when drinking demon blood and becoming infused with Fel turns into a hate filled blood thirsty rage machine.
Well… the cosmological powers stemming from the realm of Death via necromancy are every bit as strong, and when you are raised that power innundates you and infuses every fiber of your being.
It changes you, mind, body, and soul. You aren’t who you were before after the transformation. And that is the common theme across undeath in WoW.
Doesn’t matter what race, who the person was… being animated into undeath via necromancy darkens who you were previously. The stuff that let you feel happy, good emotions… largely gone. The stuff that makes you feel the bad, dark emotions, anger, torment, despair… that’s all amplified.
In ways, the way Blizzard treats undeath is very much in line with how awful a mental illness like Depression can affect the thought processes of those suffering from it. It’s part of what draws me to the undead characters in game in truth.
So, that doubt that Sira was expressing in Elune’s guidance and Elune abandoning them? That doubt and rejection was probably incredibly amplified when she first opened her eyes into undeath.
I think you just really need to be aware that the power of necromancy on cosmic scales is every bit as potent and altering when it gets into you as anything the Fel has been able to do.
When you understand that and recognize that common thread existing through the game universe, you start to realize why characters come back and do things that would have been anathema to them sometimes moments earlier when they were actually alive and not animated.
The new undead don’t have free will. I also found it strange her body wasn’t remotely decayed, Given how she was dead for a few months by then.
It always seems to depend on the necromancy and target corpse. Most undead Elves have been shown to raise back into fully fleshy bodies when animated, we really don’t see them come back in decayed states. But we also see DKs come back fully fleshy too, regardless of corpse race type, even in some cases after being dead for years where there is a reasonable expectation there’d be nothing but bones left after the flesh decayed and was eaten off.
They used to restore the minds and consciousness of the those they would raise into their ranks as one of the Forsaken because mindless undead would make them no different than the Scourge, but for whatever reason Sylvanas doesn’t care anymore.
Maybe she just doesn’t want to take another chance like she did with Godfrey, or maybe she saw something when she looked at Azerite for the first time that really did “change everything”. Either way it wasn’t explained very well ingame, and they should work on that.
I don’t mind the fact she allowed herself to be rezzed but it’s just dumb how she sides with the Forsaken you know the very people that made her hate and lose faith.
They should have made her go off on her own to wage war on the Horde.
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That quest-line was choppy, broken with weird pauses, unrealistic, untenable and ugly.
There is no evidence of cohesive or intelligent writing in those scenes, or the actions, reactions and events surrounding player and NPC alike.
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The first forsaken, Sylvanas herself, was extremely loyal to the queldorei… yet she turned on them as Arthas’ pet, and even once freed she’shad nothing to do with the sindorei.
Free will or not, it’s clear undeath utterly changes a person. I mean- the forsaken have been killing humans for years now, as former humans, is it strange to see night elves doing the same?
The nice thing is this could all be pointing towards new undead allied races- likely undead kaldorei for horde, and light forsaken for the alliance.
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