I feel like this really about depletion than a queue.
He’s concerned about trying to get into 16s.
Oh, an auto-queue for 16s. I raise my expected queue time to 2.5 hours.
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I have a resto druid at 2.4k. I get invited to pretty much anything I want 10 and under, which is what 99% of these forums are doing and complaining about. If you’re complaining about not being able to pug 16s you’re ridiculous. That’s top .1% and most people are doing those with premades.
I wouldn’t touch random queue with a fifty foot pole.
Things are so bad that I recently got rejected for my own solo delve for being “mid”.
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You would be wrong lol
Logistically, queueing up is simpler than forming a group manually. Not by much, but technically.
Additionally, Solo DPS groups tend to fill very slowly, especially if it’s not an 8 or 10. While DPS queues would be longer than tank/heal queues, it would likely still be better than manually forming - because people tend to queue up for groups that have some momentum in their formation already (or have a tank or healer), which means solo DPS Sit for awhile.
I’m totally down for queued M+. I do really think M+ Score in general should just be reworked to work like PvP (obviously the average result would be lower score, and that’s fine, achievements and such would need adjusting), and the queue could work based on that score.
Which I get is not quite what OP is asking for, but honestly, either way is fine. If a queue exists, Blizzard just needs to let failure happen. They typically don’t allow for that in queued content, which is the only problem with opening it up currently. I don’t want to see M+ nerfed because LFD success rate is low.
Starting your own group as an off-meta DPS that doesn’t have an inflated rating for the key listed is often just as pointless/tedious as trying to get invited to someone else’s group, especially if it’s not a great key. DPS may or may not join quickly and then you’ll spend 20-30 minutes (or longer) waiting for tank and/or heal. DPS you invite early will often leave before the tank and/or heal joins.
The reason why more DPS don’t do it is because they know it’s going to take a while, where as applying to other groups, while likely will take a while, there is always the chance of getting a quick invite, so more people would rather try that.
The whole LFG system is bad, and there is no easy answer.
If queue times weren’t terrible, then queued m+ would be better. You could do other things while you wait, the system can make sure similar rated players are grouped, and based on my experience and many others reported, the chance of getting a good or bad group is just as likely as picking your own people.
The answer is to join a guild, community or use the friends list. Imagine crying about LFG while refusing to use the better options.
If a solo queue system for M+ did the following, I think it might work:
- queue up to key level 8, group finder for 9+
- Match players based on a mixture of ilevel, dungeon score, and an additional metric for social score
- No key depletion, but a 30 minute debuff for failed keys
- Aggressive sanctions/bans for chronic leavers
Just spitballing, but dungeons take time, and you need to get people in, let them play, and reward them, and shut out people who excessively disrupt that system.
When people say things like “run your own key”, it is very clear that they have never played at higher levels of mythic plus.
When you get to a certain key level, you can’t even fill your own groups if you aren’t playing a meta spec because many people will just say “don’t want to waste my time playing with a warrior because they don’t have the utility or damage of the meta classes.”
People will just not sign up for your key. Or the only people who sign up are drastically under-qualified like a player whose highest key timed is a 12 when you are listing a 16.
Realistically, the people pushing most for M+ in LFD are not people pushing 12 and 13s.
They’re people playing at a lower level, likely behind the curve, who want to be able to do their 8s for crests or maybe 10s for vault.
It’s fine if people form manual groups for hardcore push content above the point where the rewards stop. No one gets any notable power progression from playing higher than +10. It’s vanity at that point.
I haven’t had an issue as an off meta dps all season or in any season. Sounds like a personal issue.
It’s easier to pug at 10s usually because people at that level aren’t as clueless.
8s aren’t high mplus.
And you being level 55 means you don’t play them either.
It won’t work.
Those are words, and they don’t have any more weight than my words, until something is actually attempted.
I see some problems with this, I’ll lift a few major ones here.
- What keeps from getting a group with 4 warriors during the dispel affix, or 5 paladins during cc affix, or 3 augs in general?
- Since you nerf keys (removing key depletion from queued keys), does the rewards shrink to compensate for this or is it a case of “have the cake and eat it too”?
- Who’s keystone is used to start the dungeon, or is that nerfed too so you can queue up for whichever dungeon you like?
- When a player goes afk or logs off to avoid sanctions/bans, what happens? How is that countered?
- If a player plays afk/trolls/leaves or whatever and you basically have to do the dungeon as 4 people, do you still get the 30 min debuff for failing?
All these of course spiral into more issues, and for every fix there’s a new problem. How do you adjust that to make system good enough that it will be used, and good enough that blizzard will spend time and money to develop it?
Sure, we won’t know if the system will work or not until we’ve tried it, but we can already see that a system like this is most likely going to fail.
They are words based on reality and an understanding of the system.
Why on earth would good tanks/healers use this system when they can find better players/groups in lfg?
Which means people will sit in Que for hours because no one wants to reroll just for people to get a group and fail because mplus isn’t designed to have a Que on it. It’s designed to be failed.
Qued content is designed to have a 100% success rate. Mplus is not that.
Then because it’s a failure those same bad players begging for this system will demand the content nerfed because it can’t possibly be their lack of skilled play causing issues.
Thank you for raising some real and well thought-out issues! I think it will be interesting to see if the season 2 changes actually do revitalize M+, or if maybe there is something wrong with the very premise of M+ that just makes it a doomed system.
I think there are fundamental problems with the “group finder” model, but there are also fundamental problems with the “queue” model, and I’d love to see the devs at least try to create queue-based progression for at least part of the M+ ladder. Right now the barriers to entry are just too high, and the participation numbers are telling the tale.
The saying is “fool-proof” as in so easy that even a fool couldn’t mess it up.