Since depletion is getting nerfed, can we get a solo q already?

I think all this comes from the same core issue:
There’s too many people playing as a DPS.

I’ve adressed this in a topic of my own, but you truly can’t have a functioning system that needs 3 different key components, when the majority of the playerbase is only willing to bring 1 key component. It doesn’t matter if the system is flawless, if it doesn’t somehow work to distribute the key components evenly.

As long as there is a surplus of DPS, all systems that require tanks/healers to play the game is doomed to “fail”.

How blizzard chooses to deal with it is up to them, there’s a lot of ideas out here on the forums, but that is genuinly the one thing that needs to be fixed rather than queue systems.

I wouldn’t say they are given how easy m0 is, but sure, it will be too high to some players.

I think adding m0 to a queue just as hc dungeons would be a great thing as that already fit the queue criterias. It would also make it easy for a lot of people to attempt m0 in a less time-consuming manner.

Simpler =/= better, or even a solution at all

How do we explain the 80% of non-meta specs below 16 keys completing dungeons if no one will join their keys, and they cant get invited to other peoples keys???

/looks at all the non-meta specs in 18 keys

Trustmebro.com handing out prizes for people to use them as a source or what?

Revitalize?
Doomed system?

Making these claims about the most successful and popular end game content is definitely a take

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Solo Q = death of 99.9% keys.

I think that the M0 issue, at least from what new players are saying, is that people won’t accept players into low keys unless they’ve already completed way, way higher keys. And the old canard of “MaKe YoUr OwN kEy” isn’t really cutting it. We need a smoother ramp in, so that players can learn base mechanics before ramping up the difficulty.

And agreed – not only are there too many DPS, but there are too many DPS who expect the tank and healer to handle all the mechanics while they watch TV on their second monitor.

S1 participation numbers plummeted and every single reputable content creator analyzed the situation and came to the consensus that the system was broken.

This is really just true for DPS as there’s such an abundance of them. For tanks and healera, starting out with 3s or 4s is no problem at all. It does get harder the higher you go though, you’re not likely to enter a 10 as a tank or healer if the highest you’ve done is a 7, but that’s fully reasonable.

But yeah, we both agree that the problem isn’t the grouping system, the problem is the uneven distribution between the roles.

Compared to other seasons and the fact that delves were introduced and that 10 key levels were effectively deleted the season has been seeing pretty good participation numbers thoufg.

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False. Ive made many (all non-meta) alts that push their way from nothing to 2k in a short manner of time with no evidence of any prior experience

It is. Cant be denied from your own group

We have access to the numbers to combat just parroting this…

The kings of click bait? The ones who do/say anything to get views? Number 1 on their list being: controversial topics? This is your source?

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The poor gnome…

So young so full of life…

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Let’s just sidestep the fact that you’re doing everything but spitting on me, the contempt is that thick. I mean, congratulations on your personality.

But again, sidestepping the venom, here’s a question:

If things are fine, then why the S2 changes? If there’s no problem, then why did Blizzard acknowledge multiple issues and then make sweeping changes to address them?

Blizzards keeps making the boneheaded decision to try and let mythic+ be an actual, alternative, end game pillar with a more reasonable difficulty to reward ratio with raiding then realizes quickly that isn’t that isn’t what the masses want.

They want it to be the easy, smash fest, loot fountain it’s been most of its life.

It’s pretty predictable.

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Projection is cute. Its not contempt, its the astonishment at the lack of being able to think for yourselves.

Its okay to idolize a streamer
Its not okay to take their word as law lol

Seasons always get made easier. S1 is always the push and pray method and then adjust

Overblown exaggeration aside, the changes arent many nor are they “sweeping”. Theyre simply lowering the reward thresholds. None of their changes are grandeur enough to drastically change participation numbers, as youre hinting at.

Also worth noting: most of their issues concerning m+ that they addressed had to do with entry into m+, explicitly from the point of delves

Note 2: someone disagreeing with you and providing actual numbers and actual facts doesnt make them “spit venom” lol

It amazes me that the people who dont do the content for the rewards demand that those rewards be brought down to their level.

Yet for some reason, they’re not complaining that theyre not getting mythic track from normal raids…

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Thats not how that went at all.
You parroted a lie and it was instantly refuted and now are playing victim.

:dracthyr_shrug:

And I mean they did spit, but it was spitting facts lol.

Trying to make the two coexist without being parasitic or making one or the other redundant is definitely proving to be a challenge for them.

The S2 changes completely do away with the conflicts between M+ and delves. People won’t feel like delves are a better gearing path than M+, and we’ll see far fewer instances of players entering M+ at low keys without really understanding the mechanics.

As far as whether S1 M+ participation numbers plunged, they did, and I wasn’t fed a lie, and all of your pixel words don’t really change that. S1 was really bad for a lot of people, and Blizzard made a huge slate of changes to address the lack of participation and enthusiasm. Certainly a lot of people did do M+, but a lot of those people were in guilds and friend groups, so they could handwave away the concerns of puggers.

Nobody refuted anything, and I’m not a victim. I’m just amused by people who mistake emotional content for empirical data.

You were definitely fed a lie. And even worse, continue to double down on it.

If you want to see what a “plunged” range looks like…
Look at SL. S1 had insane participation. S2 the participation was down by more than HALF. You are talking 3mil+ runs in a week in S1 to 1mil in week 1 participation in season 2, which usually has the highest or 2nd highest participation out of the entire season.

Tbh I don’t think you know what “really bad” looks like.
Again, instead of parroting what other people say. Literally look at the data yourself.

“Really bad” is s1 SL to s2. “Really bad” is s3 DF to s4.
And if you want to see some really fun numbers. Look at the graphs for the entirety of bfa lol.
As bad as SL was, it still out performed bfa in m+ participation.

I already addressed that later on in the thread. :slight_smile:

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I actually think it would significantly reduce wait times and benefit people of all keys levels. You already have to wait a month and 10 days for the push key you need to appear and everyone is fighting to get it. But lower keys people just want to do for gear and crest and vault and solo queue would remove a lot of restraints from doing it. They flocked to delves which has a similar system to what I’m describing, they use a system similar to what I’m describing in tgp, and even though it doesn’t net the best loot and there are wait times, people still run normal and heroic dungeons for fun. They queued up for that. People still run lfr for the mount, for flight stones, for whatever. For high keys the ratio of wanting players and number of keys they want is vastly different if the specific key you want to do is even posted up. Look for a high key range you won’t find a whole lot. If you post a key in the high range, you’ll get a lot of applicants. This disparity is obvious and solo qeue is my suggestion for how to open that up. I’ve even suggested it should have its own rating like how pvp formats have their own. Both the current version and solo q can coexist. I’m not saying get rid of lfg as it is right now (get rid of depletion though) but that a solo qeue could exist in parallel to it.

I wouldn’t touch random queue with a fifty foot pole.

Well that’s your choice and if it was in the game you can just choose not to queue up for it. I think many people even below +12 would still opt for the queue out of convenience and its relevance to the reason they’re doing m+ to begin with.

You would be wrong lol

How long do you wait for any other pve content queue to pop? I don’t expect it to be any different. In fact it might be better over the long term of the season, because more people move to m+ since it is one of the last vestiges of things to do that remains challenging with hypothetical infinite levels of difficulty to try. There’s not really anything like it besides maybe pvp and gold making that you can grind indefinitely and players move to it as they search for more things to do to get more out of their sub time.

The answer is to join a guild, community or use the friends list. Imagine crying about LFG while refusing to use the better options.

You’re not engaging in good faith. You’re assuming I’m not in a guild and dismissing that these problems exist. You’re jus here to be antagonistic rather than for us to discuss a solo q. You and a lot of people like you. I don’t think any of you have moved my opinion on this with insults and I don’t believe yet that I have stooped to your level. I’m trying to put forward a serious suggestion, why I think this is a good idea, and how I think it should work. This community and the toxicity in it is also another reason why lfg can be such a net negative for bringing in and retaining players in m+, or anything for that matter. Be nice to people, especially yourself.

Match players based on a mixture of ilevel, dungeon score, and an additional metric for social score

Ok I don’t agree with the key level cap, because I feel that there’s no need for it to be capped personally and would be interested to know why. But this second point I really, really, like this “additional metric for social score.” Other multiplayer games have had systems like this for years and years. It’s wonder why wow doesn’t have something like this. The report button is nice but even reporting some of the most obscene things from another player in personal attacks against another, I have not gotten the “we took action based on your report” mail piece from blizz. I’m not convinced they take it very seriously at the moment. This would be really neat.

No key depletion, but a 30 minute debuff for failed keys

Oh definitely. I also think “vote to kick” should be replaced with a vote to end the run consensually. Like it’s bricked, there’s no chance, it’s 100% over, and nobody wants to go on but nobody wants to leave? Initiate forfeit vote. I think i outlined this and details about how to make it work around dc’s and that i think it should be 4/5ths vote basically decreasing the number required to 4/5->3/4->2/3 based on whose connected. I think DC’d people should still get deserter debuff and it should not fall off while logged out. This would be unfortunate for people that genuinely dc’d but would go a long way to stop people from abusing the dc vote scaling by still slapping them with the deserter debuff.

People will just not sign up for your key. Or the only people who sign up are drastically under-qualified like a player whose highest key timed is a 12 when you are listing a 16.

Yea this is one of the issues for sure but I think there is overlap with a lot of other problems, like depletion, but that solo qeue can benefit more than just IO pushers. Think about why midcore players are doing 2-10. They probably don’t care about io unless it’s for the ksm mount and they just want to get it done and leave, probably. Or they just want to do an 8 for crest or a 10 for vault and portal. They’re not really wanting to deal with lfg they just want to go to the content and do it until they’ve reached that goal then quit for the season. Or they’re just doing it for fun, I’m in 2 guilds and i know lots of casuals that does keys under 10 just for fun. They just like doing big pulls and pressing buttons and they don’t care about optimization or score. They just want to get to the content and press buttons.

It won’t work.

We heard all the same things about Solo Shuffle and Battleground Blitz, we heard all the same things about 20 man mythic raiding. Like come on guys, give it a rest. Let’s try it and see how it goes and if it doesn’t work, then it is what it is and we still have lfg as it is. You would be able to do both and it has only benefits by adding another avenue to access mythic+ and expanding the accessibility.

Alright i already responded to a lot so gonna end there. I wish blizz let us make multiple responses so I didn’t have to type a giant wall that’s hard to proof read and undoubtedly full of typos.

Part of the concern I have about this, is seeing player behavior in Twilight dungeons on Cata Classic right now. They are about as kick happy as GD wants you to think that retail timewalking is. Sketchy boss pull? You bet someone’s looking at the damage meter and is going to try and kick the one guy they think is underperforming. It can even happen before they get to the boss.

Healer loads into a dungeon they don’t want? bounce (and this is with the full retail leaving or kick always results in deserter system)

And those Twilight dungeons are much easier than even +4s in the current retail system, and there’s discussion about them being ‘too hard’.

I don’t run M+ but I’m all for adding features to make it easier for people to play. You can still form your own key group, but Blizz can add a queue system for those who can’t