I woud support pug vs. pug, but where do we draw the line? Is a two men team, no longer in the solo q, what about 5 friends…? It causes a lot of issues, as in the past 10 men teams, just played with 9 to avoid another premade or they used scouts.
From my days as a premade leader, the best games were always against other premades. We did fight for 2 or 3 hours in WSG and it was why I made it to Rank 14. It were these BG´s, that I loved and played so much that in the end, I became Rank 14. If we would have played pugs only or other premades that dodged us like on many other servers and or with Xrealm, I would have stopped immediately.
The big danger of the current system will be the “not with me” attitude that can spread quite quickly. If you solo Q and see a premade, you just dodge it and leave. This can lead to lots of frustration as the Deserter will kick in and you won´t be able to queue for any other BG. At the same time, the premades don´t have any fun and yes, there are many that want fun and couldn´t care less about Rank 14.
It was the reason why I quit after 1.12. with pvp, as everyone did run away from us, we simply put, had no matches anymore. The premades dodged us, the pugs did, it was a dead game with xrealm pvp.
But yes, the threads will come, people that dislike the current WPVP system, will also complain about the BG system. It´s classic, it´s what we asked for and I am not sure if changing it is good or bad, I understand those that want a different queue, but it´s very hard to implement I think.
Players should absolutely be able to queue up for BGs whether solo or in groups. We are 100% in agreement there.
But should those that don’t make any effort to interact with their realm/team have the same chances of success as those who go out of their way to actively engage with their own realm? Especially considering this is meant to be a social game?
They can interact with all their random teammates.
It’s funny you’re calling it “social” when you’re deliberately trying to avoid playing with more people and limiting it to only the same couple of players in your premades.
Actually I’m deliberately trying to play with more people by asking the random people on my realm in LFG or /pvp if anyone wants to group with me before I start the content.
Joining a BG by yourself, to play for yourself, and not even have to speak in chat the entire time is by definition antisocial.
They can still do that. And they and their random teammates if they decide to coordinate can circulate a Discord link in BG chat and will absolutely stand a chance against any premade assuming near equal skill.
The solution to prevent premades rolling pugs is simple, use the queue as a group join as a group mechanic and have the system try to match premades to other premades. Both of which are existing mechanics so there shouldn’t be an issue implementing them.
Disagree. This way of thinking is why modern MMOs are boring snorefests where people queue for dungeons, interact the bare minumum with a party (hey, hello, hi), and leave only to never see them again. The reason Classic and other like old MMOs are good is BECAUSE they force you to socialize and group up to complete things, hence the term Massive MULTIPLAYER Online Role Playing Game.
Like, seriously. The whole “I shouldn’t have to group or meet people or do anything” mentality is just so crappy for those of us that actually like working with other people. It’s even why other games like HOTS became worse because nobody wants to group, they just want to whine about solo queue not being fun. Even co-op games these days are few and far between.
Not everything has to be a single player experience. There are games for people like that out there, HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of them. Leave my Classic WoW out of it, or just solo queue and get stomped by premades and continue to complain that you shouldn’t team up in a multiplayer game.
Sorry, as someone that loves the co-op experience some games offer and how fun it can be when it works, I just really hate that mentality that every game should also be solo player friendly.
Like, it’s okay for games to have solo player modes with really bad multiplayer as an afterthought, but when a game requires multiplayer and doesn’t focus on solo play, it’s bad? Silly double standard.
Seriously, organized geared premades versus Pugs isn’t even pvp. It might as well be another gank squad. We’ll camp anyone dumb enough to ress in their graveyard.
Nope. Premades aren’t made of superheroes. They’re just players. These players will be coming from raids. If you don’t have gear, you will be free honor. That is true versus a premade, or anybody else.
There will be whining, but as we have seen, such is life.
Count yourself lucky that this isn’t BC-WoD, where not only does a geared player deal more damage, but they take significantly less as well. Resilience split the game into two gear grinds.
Both sides can have premades, it’s not hard to find 10 for a premade WSG, this is not the same problem as 70/30 faction imbalance, WSG and premades will level the playing field as it’ll be our 10 vs your 10. Wpvp has been a huge let down because there’s never any restrictions on the fight, Do you have 15 more people than the otherside? Well you pretty much win by default assuming the people with numbers aren’t completely braindead.
That giant wall of text you made is completely missing the point. This isnt about making the game less group oriented, its about balancing the meta of hardcore group gy stomping. You will be getting hard farmed, especially with the ultra casual account you just posted with. You dont understand whats coming, its that simple. Premades should and will exist in bgs, but they should more often than not not be paired with other premades. This is about having actual pvp. Im sure you are enjoying your corpse runs now as an alli, if you think that gameplay style is fun on either side you are an idiot and you need to leave.
Level 59 after more than 3 months of gameplay? Yeah youre the ultra casual pug type of player that will be getting hard farmed by the prem meta. No wonder you want prem vs pug so bad, only way youd be useful.
I do remember back in the day getting pretty frustrated waiting an hour or so for a BG to pop just to get steamrolled by a pre-made 10 man. But despite that frustration, I was just as capable of finding a 10 man group to queue up with as they were, so I never really complained. I wouldn’t really care either way if they did something like this, but I do fear that even with battlegroups implementing such a system would make it too easy to kill trade for rank grinding.
The main issue wpvp has is massive numbers differences meaning it’s impossible for one faction to do anything without being chained camped.
‘Inevitably having the same issues’ unless you’re saying that you think BGs are going to all be 10v2 or 40v10 in WSG/AV, having the same issue is literally impossible.
No, it’s not at all- you’re going to lose because the other team is coordinated and better, not because they threw numbers at you.
If a ten player team beats another ten player team, the winning team is the better team- if a 40 man team beats a 10 man team, it means they have more people.
The other thing is- the solution to facing premades is to make a premade. The solution to avoiding faction imbalance is rerolling. It takes minutes to put a premade together- it takes hundreds to thousands of hours to level, gear up again, get back your epic mount and whatever else you’ve earned. And if you’re tired of premades and don’t want to make one- you can still do anything else in the game.
The post I responded to was stating that you should not have to group up as a prerequisite to do well in BGs.
I was disagreeing. The best PvP is organized group PvP.
By someone stating that they “should not have to group up to win/do better”, they are indeed arguing in favor of making the game less group oriented, and all the situations I spoke of tie in with that kind of mentality.
I am not speaking in terms of world PvP, in this case it is purely speaking in terms of BGs. There is nothing stopping anyone that is serious about wanting to win or have a better experience, save their own personal reservations, from grouping up with the various methods offered to them.
Instead, people would rather complain about having to group so they want Blizzard to fix solo queue for them and make it a better experience. It was like that in LoL, Overwatch, HOTS, ANY game with matchmaking and solo queue.
Find some friends and play the ONLINE game ONLINE, WoW BGs included.