Revised and made longer a bit after some discussion:
We need to balance premade bg groups vs pug groups. One way of doing this is grouping premades with other premades more often, and grouping solo players with each other more often. I would love to discuss this further.
I can already see the sea of complaints coming in because “premades are ruining this game.”
People will endlessly complain about the hardcore premades who are going to naturally have complete control of games because of the coordination that pugs simply can’t get. I can just join the meta and farm pugs all day in a premade myself. I play for pvp, and the meta of pvp will be quickly determined. that meta will look something like: Premade joins group. premade rolls over pug. pugs complain on forums. something that should’ve been addressed proactively gets some weird fix that could’ve been avoided.
I’d much rather have actual competitive pvp over this miserable excuse for combat that the current state of wpvp is in. it’s not fun for anyone, and I’m on the side that is rolling through everyone. People think the graveyard farming is bad now, just wait until bgs come out and your pug team is being even more efficiently farmed for honor.
idk man, I’m enjoying classic, but wpvp was such a let down, if bgs end up being trash too, i’ll just leave, as many others will/have. Current pvp is not and will not ever be what vanilla pvp was. there’s a reason virtually all competitive games balance pvp the way they do. pvp is one realm where nochanges is just utter bs.
Classic wow isn’t the vanilla experience, there’s certain things we can’t get back and we gotta accept that. the nochanges idiots will say what they will say but ultimately, we’re way past #nochanges and the fun of the game is more important to me than holding up some weird fetishized ideal that classic wow is flawless and is unimprovable for modern gameplay.
The spirit of vanilla pvp was competitive pvp. I really do not think that classic pvp will be in that spirit in it’s current state. I hope I am wrong, but I do not think I will be based on what wpvp looks like.
Here’s a couple quotes that might illustrate a nice picture for you from someone being honest.
This existed back then and it would exist today. The entire point of Classic is to reexperience things and not tailor the experience to what you want it to be.
When they said “You think you do, but you don’t”, they kinda saw all of this coming. In fact all of the #changes they were doing were all due to outrage they knew were coming. Every time these threads pop up, it proves them right.
If the battlegrounds cross realms like they should, it’ll be very easy to separate solo/group queues. I’m hoping they don’t screw this up because if it’s pug vs premades 24 7 again, I’m going right back to AFK leeching like I used to do. Just sit in ghost after the first death and wait for the end.
So in order to cope with the obvious reality that people will attempt to do organized pvp, you will damage the already demoralized pugs you queue with and your faction by AFKing while staying in the battleground. It’s not a free win, so AFK…completely degenerate.
see, that’s the thing. How can you reexperience something that will never be the same as when it was launched? We do so many things to tweak the gameplay, where do we draw the line? there are a lot of things that have been done that I agree and disagree with. some things are needed for the health of the game. balancing pvp in a nonintrusive will be needed. if you think wpvp is at all like it was during vanilla then you’re ignorant. were there gank squads and premades during wpvp and battlegrounds back in vanilla? yes. were they a problem? depends. the scale of that sort of thing was massively different back then and the experience will be nothing like our experience in vanilla. there will be a quickly defined meta that I don’t see being any fun. it doesn’t matter if we make the same exact game as 15 years ago. WE are different. PvP will need help if it wants to keep people around.
Maybe I’ll need to wait for bc for meaningful pvp. and that’s fine. I just don’t think it’s necessary. I wont be a part of it, and I know many others wont either.
There’s nothing degenerative about not wasting your time in a match you have no hope of winning. It’s called reality, and dealing with it in a logical way. Feeding them deaths does nothing for you. If you really want to, you go ahead and get corpse camped at the graveyard. You do that. You spawn over and over, and die instantly each time. Have fun.
Yeah but the premade thing in BGs is easily solved by either joining a PvP guild that runs premades, having a guild group, having a couple friends, or even using some global channel to recruit people for a premade.
With the guard “Fixes” and the Spy “Fix” and the Classic LFG “Fix” and countless modern QoL changes while many 1.12 changes are in place while others are being intentionally held…I just don’t know anymore.
That’s where I say the “You think you do, but you don’t” guy is 100% right. Things like this quote I am replying to.
Actually I’m one of the very few people who called this out to a forum that had no idea it was happening months before it became a thing. If anything I’ve been more cognizant of this than 99.99% of the forums.
fair enough, good call. i can respect that. what do you propose we do about bgs inevitably having some of the same issues that wpvp will have? (as far as pugs getting absolutely stomped and pvp not being fun)
It was a problem then, it’ll be a problem now. The only way to “fix” it would be a pug mindset of fighting and playing to win. Or doing your best to slow down, turtle and delay premades so badly that you crush their honor per hour. Even if you lose, you win.
have you ever grouped with pugs for a raid? it’s utterly hopeless. then you have people like this level 10 troll above who literally just afk leech if things aren’t going their way. it’s sad. at least balance the garbage with the garbage, that’s my concern. not me playing well as an individual, it’s the mouth breathers that will determine how a game goes.
It’s true. It’s not always that way though. Sometimes a group of 3-5 people impacting things positively can affect the rest and that’s all you need for most of the premades queuing up.
you literally play retail lmao. literally go back to your garbage game.
this idea that because retail does one thing that classic doesn’t, it’s automatically evil is the dumbest thing that the dumbest minds could ever think of.
Go back to retail for real.