Melee survival spec is sooo much fun in arenas. It couldnt get much better as far as a hybrid ranged and melee spec goes. I just dont understand why people who want a ranged hunter dont go BM or MM, why does it have to be survival? A pet is usable in both of the other specs and all you do is ranged damage from your character. I love the survival spec and hope it does not go anywhere.
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They should just switch around BM and SV. Current BM is dull as hell, Ranged SV was way more fun and engaging than current BM, and Melee SV’s “Spear-wielding primal warrior with an animal companion” feels more Beastmaster-y than “Run around with a gun and your shots make the pet stronger somehow”.
Revert Survival to MoP mechanically as the fully mobile ranged spec replacing BM’s current role, and graft MSV’s current mechanics over Beastmaster but replacing the bombs and gadgetry with animal themes (SS calling snakes to bite the target instead of the minicrossbow, etc), possibly with the option to dual wield for Rexxar class fantasy goodness.
ETA: Even makes the Legion leveling artifact situation a nonissue. Just switch the artifact spec requirement and associated quests to the other spec.
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Oh look, another survival thread!
I mean yeah, ranged survival is probably the most fun hunter spec I’ve ever played, but it ain’t coming back. It’s kinda shocking how much hand-wringing is going on over this spec lol
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Defeatism. Naysayers claimed that for years about 2H Frost, DW Brewmaster, and 2H WW, all things that are coming back in Shadowlands. Naysayers tried to shout down players wanting vanilla servers with the Wall of No, and now we have Classic WoW. It’s already proven that if enough players demand the return of something long enough Blizzard will consider bringing it back. Telling players to just sit down and shut up about things they liked that were removed from the game just stinks of whiny defeatism to me.
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It must take an astounding lack of logic to try and compare using a different weapon type like the ones in your examples to changing a class from melee to ranged (or vice versa)…
You can’t really compare expanding weapon options to reverting survival from a melee to a ranged spec and completely redoing its talents and abilities. They aren’t remotely equivalent. I’d like to see ranged survival back, but Blizzard is 100% at this point in SL’s development not going to fundamentally change the spec. If you want to play the long game and keep your hopes up for the expansion after that fine, but the ship has sailed for SL.
Because we had three options before instead of two now. We also lost our ONLY fully mobile ranged DoT spec and brought down the fully mobile ranged specs to one. Finally, BM is focused on the beast, MM on the weapon, and Survival on the traps, explosives, and ranged DoT abilities. If you liked the theme of RSV that is GONE now. Switching to another spec doesn’t change that. Worse, MM is being ruined because of trying to put RSV abilities as talent options when they could focus on making beneficial MM talents.
How about let’s not. I would like to be able to stand 40 yards away from my target, be able to dodge mechanics while still doing full DPS, and use Exotic pets.
Hunter from the start is a ranged class. We only had melee abilities because of the minimum range of ranged weapons and they were never good. That was removed in MoP and good riddance. Stop trying to advocate further destruction of this class.
If MSV can’t be removed then bringing RSV back as a fourth spec is the ONLY option.
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If you’re tired of it then why don’t you just stop reading them? If you no longer wish to engage in the discussion, then why do you continue to do so? Oh ya, because you’re just a troll who constantly derides anyone who wants the game to improve for both parties by bringing ranged SV back.
Sorry but I’m not the kind of person who just believes anything a person says, especially when they are just a troll. If you can’t link me his comment where he explicitly states that melee SV should be removed, rather than bringing ranged SV back as a fourth spec, then I won’t believe you. That’s not me being too lazy to scour the forums for something that may not exist. That’s you being too lazy to simply link a forum post that you apparently already know about.
It’s like being in a debate and somebody claims that there is an article that proves their argument to be correct, but they refuse to provide it and just tell you to ‘google it’. The burden of proof is on the claimant.
But that’s the thing. Bringing back ranged SV would be the best thing for melee SV as well. It would allow Blizzard to stop splitting the spec between melee and ranged. They could make melee SV exclusively melee, and try to actually design a good fantasy and gameplay for it rather than trying to appeal to the ranged SV crowd who just wants back their spec that was deleted. Bringing it back is the best of both worlds.
Heck, why not just delete two thirds of all specs in the game then? Warlocks deal magic damage from a range with all three of their specs, so therefore all three specs must be identical and no Warlock player exists that favors one spec over the other for gameplay/fantasy reasons, so just delete Affliction and Demonology. Why would they complain?
I just don’t understand why people who want a ranged Warlock don’t go Destruction, why does it have to be Affliction or Demonology? A demon is usable in Destruction after all and all you do is ranged damage from your character. I love that Destruction exists and that Affliction and Demonology were deleted for no reason. I hope they don’t come back, because that would somehow infringe upon my enjoyment of Destruction. /s
But it wouldn’t be changing a class from melee to ranged… Hunters are a ranged class already. They already changed SV from ranged to melee, so the idea that they couldn’t just add ranged SV back is ridiculous. Again, there is no reason to not so do. It benefits both melee SV players and those who want back ranged SV.
You say that you are just tired of seeing people say they want ranged SV back, yet you seem completely willing to argue against it. So apparently you’re not just here to tell people to shut up about it. You want to engage in the discussion by telling people that this change, that would benefit both parties and the class as a whole, won’t happen because neener neener neener.
We aren’t asking for melee SV to be reverted, just for ranged SV to be returned as a fourth spec. It could still happen at this stage, especially since the xpac is all about bringing back things that Blizzard pointlessly deleted in the past.
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This will happen when Blizzard makes an expansion with a “Hunting” or “Wild” theme. Can we close the thread now?
Again, I’ve pointed out what he’s said. You can go scroll through his astounding number of posts to find the info. You being lazy is not a valid excuse. Notice how it isn’t being refuted? You claim to use logic, so figure it out.
SV is currently melee. Therefore, using your vaulted logic, the hunter is obviously not just a ranged class. You may not like it, but that’s completely irrelevant.
Lastly, we read them hoping to have actual discussions about the current iteration of SV. Yet every single thread gets turned into a whine about wanting ranged back. We cannot have a meaningful discussion about melee SV because you certain lot turn into this.
In short, if you quit turning every SV post into this most people would ignore it, like we did for the previous three years. Not hard to grasp.
You didn’t point anything out. Pointing something out would mean actually pointing to it, not just claiming that it exists. If you want to point it out then show it to me with a link. The only way to refute such a baseless claim would be to quote every single comment he’s ever made, and then noting that he didn’t say it in any of them. But I guess not wanting to quote every comment he has ever made is more ‘lazy’ than not wanting to quote a single comment that contains the info that backs up what you are claiming.
Hunter is a ranged class. Blizzard has said it in the past, and your precious melee SV is now more a ranged spec than any other melee DPS spec in the game.
I’ve never seen you engage in discussion about melee SV. Every post I’ve seen from you is just whining about people wanting ranged SV back.
In fact, in this thread: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/2-melee-strikes-does-not-a-survival-hunter-make/488579
It was you who first commented about melee SV vs ranged SV:
Bepples was the very first response in that thread, and they didn’t mention ranged SV at all:
Your hated #1 enemy was completely on topic, discussing melee SV and its current iteration. It was you who incited it, and you continued to do so:
You hypocrite. Whining about people turning every SV post into requests to bring back ranged SV, meanwhile you just go into melee SV threads attempting to pretentiously incite that very discussion only to then whine and complain about people engaging in it. All for your crusade of hate against a change that would benefit both parties.
You have no arguments. You have no data. You have no logic. All you have is an unjustified opposition to a universally positive change, and whining about people asking for that universally positive change.
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First, unless you’re a dullard you can just as easily go through his post history and find it. You’re lazy, but trying to deflect it onto me. Sorry, not working.
Second, if you want to play games, the title of this very thread is about getting rid of melee SV. Care to try again?
Third, SV is melee, which means, according to Blizzard, hunter is not just a ranged class. Your attempts to ignore that mean nothing. By the way, it was cute saying Blizz said it was ranged in the past… which has nothing to do with the fact that it is no longer just ranged.
Unless he didn’t say it, in which case I would be searching forever. Do you see the problem now? You can’t just make a baseless claim and then demand the other person search for it until they find it, especially when it may not even exist. Burden of proof is on the claimant. If you can’t link the comment, then for all intents and purposes it doesn’t exist.
Furthermore, if he did say that, then I can’t really fault him. I would disagree with him, but that doesn’t mean that you are suddenly in the right about literally anything. It just means that we had slightly different opinions on the matter in the past. Of course, it means nothing if you refuse to actually quote where he said it.
What are you talking about? Are you referring to the thread that I linked where you incited the melee vs ranged SV discussion? That was a thread different from the one we are currently posting in. For reference, the title of that thread is “2 melee strikes does not a survival hunter make”. So not only are you too lazy to link a comment to prove your point, but you are also too lazy to follow the link that I gave you to prove my point? lol what a joke.
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Bepples refutes everything, and even he hasn’t refuted it. I’m not going through his post history to find something you’re too lazy to find on your own. By the by, it’s actually comical to see you throw up “burden of proof” when just the other day you were actually trying to use wowgraphs as support. Talk about pot meet kettle.
Are you claiming that I didn’t meet my burden of proof because I provided evidence for what I claimed? Pot meet kettle? Are you serious?
Also, still waiting on your response to the fact that all you do is incite the melee vs ranged SV discussion, only to then whine about people engaging in it. What do you have to say for yourself?
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Imagine calling worldofgraphs “proof”… rofl. By the way, I engaged in discussions all the time, you do realize the forums reset right? I don’t any more because it’s never a discussion and literally just Ghorak, Bepples, and now you turning it into a we want ranged SV. There is no more discussion because of you people.
It is evidence that you couldn’t refute. You said it wasn’t good enough, but didn’t provide valid reasoning as to why. You refuse to explain how the Hunter class changes weren’t somehow involved with the mass exodus from the Hunter class that is evident from the data from wargraphs. Furthermore, you refused to provide your own data to demonstrate all of the things you were claiming.
For these reasons, I provided ample evidence to meet my burden of proof. If you cannot muster a refutation, and continue to rely on essentially just saying “No you’re wrong” over and over again, then it can be assumed that my reasoning is valid and that the given evidence was sufficient in establishing such.
False. Suggestions about how to better the game, and how to go about implementing those changes, is discussion. You are the one who refuses to engage in that discussion, as you just say “No, ranged SV is never coming back, deal with it”. You shut down discussion, while the rest of us try to engage in it.
If you want to claim that Bepples made those comments only on the old forums, well, that means that he made those comments about a year ago or more. Bepples has been posting on the new forums since May of 2019, as I just checked from his profile. In that case, why are you basing his opinion on the matter off of something said so long ago, and not off of what he has said more recently?
Also, the reason why I just started posting again (as I posted about this in the past as well, when you were still trolling), is because I stopped playing retail mid-Legion because of the Hunter class changes (I am resubbed now to play classic, and because I am hopeful of the SL changes in retail bringing back deleted abilities). I tried moving on, and playing anyway. I level capped my Hunter, my Rogue and my Shaman, but I couldn’t do it anymore. I quit because the changes were so bad, and now I watch for the day when some good changes are made, or for when Blizzard brings back ranged Survival. So I suppose you could call me living proof of the arguments I am making.
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I agree with you except for the survival trying to be a warrior. It plays nothing like a warrior. That is just your ignorance speaking. You do not impress me so I’ll talk to you however I please. You’re disrespectful and you don’t think ideals through. You wear your heart on your sleeve and turn your brain off. Idc if they add a 4th ranged survival. It will most likely just be brain dead and boring like mm and bm. Half arsed with black arrow and explosive shot.
If you didn’t take this weird crusade against melee survival I believe you wouldn’t be as annoying. You talk about it as if you haven’t played it before. Which just kinda makes me eye roll the rest of your point because it’s probably not coming too far from the past ignorance you’ve displayed.
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I think that would be cool if they do make a ranged sv focused on dots n all of that. i just do not have hopes in blizzard. I haven’t for a while. Which is why I’m so thankful that msv clicked with me so well. I’m truly sorry it didn’t click with a lot of people. I loved old survival and I love current survival. Sucks people has to lose a spec. I’m for a 4th spec. Hopefully they make it interesting. I’ll still most likely be sticking with MSV cause it just feels real real nice! 
It plays closer to a warrior than a hunter. That is my point.
At what point did impressing other people became a prerequisite for respectful discussion? I only treat with disrespect those who are disrespectful. You came right out of the gate being disrespectful after all. Also, I can wear my heart on my sleeve while still using my brain. I’ve provided numerous logical arguments that support my position, and have provided data and mathematics to back it up. You can see such in my posts preceding this one responding to Darkeforge. That said, why don’t you feel the need to treat him with disrespect too? Is it because you agree with him?
I have played it before. I didn’t play it as thoroughly as most melee SV mains, but I did play it, and I didn’t like it, because I felt like I was playing a warrior and not a Hunter. I did enjoy some aspects of it, but I also enjoyed some aspects of my Warrior, as well as every other class. Also, I am not on a ‘crusade’ against melee SV. I am arguing for the return of ranged SV.
If they can just copy paste from Cata or MoP, and build off of it from there, it would probably be alright. But you are right, and as I’ve said in other posts, Blizzard is not on the top of their game when it comes to the Hunter class. They haven’t been since WoD imo (though it was still ok in WoD). It makes sense that melee SV appeals so much to melee players. Blizzard forgot how to design Hunters, so they made a spec that isn’t really a Hunter and replaced SV with it.
Black arrow that procs LnL. Explosive shot with its 2 second duration. Serpent Sting baseline. Exotic Munitions baseline. Make Wildfire Bomb a ranged SV ability too. Bring back Waylay to make traps more interesting and viable in dungeons/raiding and to make ranged SV a unique spec (stronger in fights where the boss is moved around, allowing the SV Hunter to get the most uses out of Waylay traps). That’s a solid base to start at, and already sounds really interesting.
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