There is no longer this idea of “server”. They said so. We’re getting sharding whether we like it or not - under the covers. However, they CAN make it so that we don’t feel the difference between sharded and physical server. It’s just cost extra money.
And yes, sharding is dynamic. It’s configuration driven. So how it works on the cloud is this. You can set a minimum shard size, then a maximum shard size. If it passes the minimum, it will spawn extra shards to handle the load. But, keep in mind, it takes time for those extra shards to start up - which is why current WoW has issues.
The traffic suddenly spikes up before the extra resources can be used.
I think I remember your recount of your experience and how your guild disintegrated, which really sucked. While I don’t disagree merges had a negative impact, the actual cause was much worse: asocial gameplay.
Asocial gameplay was introduced in part with phasing in all its forms (Cross Realm Zones, garrisons/missions/scenarios and of course sharding), ez-mode dungeons/leveling and, perhaps MOST of all, LFG/LFR killed original WoW gameplay and its community, IMHO.
Modern WoW convenience changes allowed players to become asocial - to play without really needing other players. (By “need” I mean “trust and invest in friends,” as we had to do in Vanilla/TBC gameplay - when a good repuation was required to be invited to dungeons or raids and be accepted into a good guild and progress to the end game.)
After Wrath was released, I saw the game and community I lived with for years become hallowed out into an empty shell and disappear.
Grouping up while questing was replaced with phasing, sharding, CRZ players and increased health/mana regen.
Building a reliable friend list (many of whom I met during low-level questing) was replaced with the a button for LFG.
Players that I once saw every day in citiies or even out in zones or dungeons all disappeared. They were phased out of existence with CRZ, sharding and effectively turned them into anonymous ghosts.
Server merges were part of the life of Vanilla and TBC and the game only grew during that time, in spite of server merges. But after all the convenience features were added, original WoW became what we have today - boring, ez-mode, conveneince-based, instant gratification, asocial gameplay.
Today, no one cares you even exist because they can essentially solo the game without you.
I want to play WoW again and have “permaent” or “persistent” (non-sharded) players around me matter again - and for me to matter to them - as a community again.
The big thing, if you ask me, is that if they’re going to shard it needs to be on server only, and early load only.
This means that instead of shoring up zones you feel might be empty, you leave them alone.
There have always been times when zones were going to be empty for one reason or another. Maybe it’s 3:30 AM and you’re in Desolace for some reason. There’s no need to make sure I have 39 other people to keep me company, I know what the zone is going to be like.
This means that if a zone is too full, any people who are sharded stay on the server.
I should never, ever, ever, see another server name next to someones name. If 320 of us are trying to do quests in the starter area, and you need to mellow that out for player experience, fine. Split us up into groups of 30-40 people, but all of us are from the same server.
Because you’re creating smaller groups, not bigger groups, you have zero reason to ever shard us onto other servers. Shard Server 1 into smaller groups at first if not doing so would genuinely be detrimental.
Sharding, maybe. CRZ, absolutely not.
This means it must not occur at high levels.
Competition between players is vital to a successful world. You can talk about whether or not resources should get boosted spawns when more players are nearby (I’m not sold), but sharding us into smaller zones with their own resources is going to cause economic problems.
This means that community must come first.
Going back to “CRZ, absolutely not”:
Anyone I meet in the world I should be able to guild with. Anyone I meet I should be able to group with. Anyone I meet I should be able to trade with. Anyone I meet I should be able to work together with for any reason we so choose.
The moment we start seeing people we can’t group with, trade with, join guilds with, etc, is the moment server identity (and community) break down. A significant portion of our love for “Vanilla” was the community.
We may not be able to get the same community back, but we can make something new. To do that effectively, as closely as we remember it, we need full agency to work with the people that we see in the world.
I think one of the main reasons they consider sharding is they know YouTube will swamp some servers if you stay away from those servers you may never see sharding
The same could be said about those who would rather having no sharding at all. A potential of 800 people with me in Durotar is not going to be fun (or an authentic vanilla experience), even if I’m sitting there BSing with everyone else who is just as frustrated as me. I don’t think anyone who is pro-sharding in the beginning wants tiny amounts per shard, they just don’t want private server levels of insanity.
That being said, you absolutely should be concerned about the use of sharding. We all should. While I’m obviously one who will defend the use of it in the launch window of the game (2 weeks maybe?) for starting zones only*, I’m staunchly against it for anything beyond that. If Blizzard decides to implement it at launch and says it will be launch only, we need to hold them to that.
*Elwynn, Durotar, etc. - I don’t want it in The Barrens, Westfall, Wetlands, etc. We have more options on things we can do to once we’re out of the first few levels.
I never said sharding was in vanilla and personally think it should not be in Classic but that is not my decision. That said I hope to find a medium pop server that doesn’t need sharding. I think Blizzard knows that youtubers will break servers and I plan to avoid streamers servers even if I have to reroll to avoid them. There is a lot about Classic that they are doing I don’t like but appears my choice is play their game or not at all. We all know Blizzard no longer makes games for gamers but the game they want to make as cheaply as possible.
Thanks for the YouTube link @Eloraell - added to the OP!
And I am thankful to the original Vanilla veterans working on this project! I think the two Senior Engineers (Omar and Brian) on this team are awesome based on everything they have presented at the 2018 Blizzcon Pannel - as well as in this separate pannel for the content creators.
I believe they want the best for Classic. I can only hope Blizzard will provide the infrastructure they need to eliminate sharding altogether and find a working solution in one of the other “options available to us” that he alluded to.
I also HOPE the next Blue Post will be on sharding and soon!
A 10,000 player queue requiring you to wait 4 days, isn’t Vanilla.
2000 players in one zone also isn’t Vanilla. We’re telling Blizzard that we want large shards with 200 players minimum. That’s easily representative of Vanilla. And if there aren’t more than 400 players in a zone… no shards.
This is a complete mischaracterisation of anyone trying to explain that Sharding is the only way to ensure a successful launch. Absolutely none of those things are what we’re discussing. You’re strawmanning every person you don’t like in yet another fallacious argument.
But you’re ok with not playing for 4 days every time you log off…
200 people in a zone is Vanilla. 5000 is Classic without sharding.
That’s their goal. Not a guarantee. They’ve also repeatedly said they’ll be using Sharding only at launch if they don’t have alternate solutions. No-one has put up alternative solutions that result in a better situation. The non-sharded server capped version results in dead realms, and the non-sharded raised cap version results in 2000 people in the zone getting nothing done for hours.
And I’ve already repeatedly said, if they start seeing people get past the first zones in larger numbers than expected, they need to load up new servers for all the people coming in later. I think you’re far overestimating the amount of people who will look in at Classic and suddenly be hooked.
Until then, we have their assurances in every place its discussed. Kinda like how you’re hanging all your hopes on one metaphor, we’re trusting in the dozen other assurances that sharding will only be used for a limited time, in a limited form, at launch.
They specifically said that they want players to feel the “one server” whether the technology is different or not. They have said they won’t use sharding in higher zones because they understand the issues with resource contention, world bosses, and ensuring that the population is seen.
None of those things besides sharding are being included, and sharding only in a limited time, limited form, only at launch.
And as Blizzard has pointed out repeatedly, that’s not sharding. That’s phasing and CRZ. Without CRZ in cities, you wouldn’t have enough players to shard on any given server.
And you will. This is the problem with all the arguments against starter zone sharding.
I played Vanilla for more than 150 days /played before TBC came out. The leveling at the starters was maybe 8-10 hours. That part of the game was a tiny tiny fraction of the game. For all the later characters I leveled after the launch, the starter areas were relatively empty. For the first day there were maybe 150 people at a time. To get that experience again, either we need 4 day queues, or sharding.
That’s exactly what they’re doing.
They’ve already said they’re not doing CRZ. They want to create one server community. Sharding the starters for the first week is going to have essentially zero effect on that.
I am thankful for them too. Because I trust they have the best interests of Vanilla in mind.
Note in that Video vs Ion - “We are investigating how we could do it, if its required”. They’re only going to use sharding on launch if required. They share our concerns, but they aren’t going to let overhyped fear destroy the Classic launch or the ongoing experience.
Not exactly. You are making this assumption again.
They have ONLY said (I’m paraphrasing):
sharding will be used for “a few weeks” to help with the launch “in starter zones.”
We know there can only be 1 Kazzak and it’s critical to compete for resources in Classic
They haven’t promised sharding will be eliminated.
They promised sharding will not used in other zones.
I understand your argument. But as a cloud engineer, I would wager that now is the time to demand sharding not be used. If they need it to support population further into the game (in terms of time and locations) in the future, it will be too late, IMO, to demand they quickly change their infrastructure to replace sharding due to cost and stability risks.
The only scenario they have suggested so far that mitigates sharding is when the tourists leave. When or what that threshold is, no one knows for sure. But I would bet its going to be a lot longer and the population higher than they are expecting. But who knows.
IMO, now is the time (before release) to put in the long-term infrastructure that eliminates any need for sharding now before it’s used and required to support the game in the future.
Apologies, I wasn’t saying I think they’re doing something wrong per se. Is it ideal? No, but that’s the nature of the beast.
I was more clarifying why I think that the way they’re doing it is tenuously all right. So long as it doesn’t go further than that, I’ll be happy.
As all things with Blizzard, I reserve that trust until I see it.
As you say, sharding shouldn’t matter because it should be on server only. That was my point, as well. I was just approaching it from the “this is what I’d be happy with, and what I wouldn’t”. I didn’t mean to imply they’re doing things I wouldn’t be all right with.
We understand that, and I understand completely, that sharding is antithetical to a cohesive Classic community, where you’re competing over limited resources. When Lord Kazzak is up, and guilds are racing to defeat him, there needs to be only one Lord Kazzak. When you’re trying to get, you’re trying to lock down the Thorium veins that spawn in limited sections of the world, you should be competing over limited resources. That said, the first few weeks when everybody is packed into Valley of Trials, when everyone is packed into Elwynn, we think we can use sharding there in a limited, time limited, way to solve the initial launch day load problems, while making sure that in the long run as server communities solidify, there’s a healthy population, and a single world for everyone to live in.
These are not the words of a team willing to say “Meh, shard everything whenever we want”.
![:frowning:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/frowning.png?v=6" ":frowning:")