Jellex, it’s probably time to just accept that the horde experience you want is dead and can’t come back. 
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Our narrative satisfaction, from what we’ve seen, will be to free Tyrande from a problem that was created because of what the horde did, and make sure that all the night elves that died don’t suffer eternal torment. That is an insult compared to the ramifications that Teldrassil should have.
Why is it hard for you to understand that letting of of Teldrassil would shatter whatever Alliance pride is left? If we can’t even protect our own member states, or enact retribution for them, then what is the point of the Alliance?
Or perhaps you simply don’t care. After all, it wasn’t your faction that got kicked in the teeth repeatedly and then were told to forgive and forget, for the second time in a row. Or was it the third time? I’ve lost count.
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It’s been dead since MoP.
We just didn’t know it yet.
And it wasn’t your faction that was haphazardly deconstructed for the second time and tossed to the wayside with no closure or sign of progress with a steadily declining roster. We were told point blank that we did this dance because they never addressed 'What is the Horde?" after the entire xpac about just that. You lost ZERO lore characters, who now get to have their stories continued while two of ours are dead/left, one gets offed for your pride in the pre-patch, and one is pretty much the BBG of the xpac.
What pride do we still have ourselves to sacrifice for yours?
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(Observation): If they’re not satisfied, how is it satisfaction?
(Commentary): I’m not unsympathetic to the Horde’s issue here. I just don’t see any way around it that can be any kind of good writing. Nothing short of the Horde embracing full villain mode at least, and I doubt that’s the kind of Horde you want. Mind you, you’re talking to the Mechagnome whom has suggested narratives moving away from all this mess, towards rebuilding for the Night Elves. I do think the Night Elves should be free to move past it. I think the Horde needs to come to terms with it as well, but never forget it.
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/2-years-later/666396/6?u=exacitor-wyrmrest-accord
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/2-years-later/666396/22?u=exacitor-wyrmrest-accord
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The objection I have to this in general is that you move too quickly to “Oh, there’s no easy solution for the Horde, so guess you have to suffer. Sorry, sucks to be you.”
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And what pride do you think Alliance players will have if they cannot even protect their own member states or avenge them? The Alliance may as well be disbanded at that point. You Horde players underestemate how much ignoring Teldrassil will hurt the Alliance.
And you underestimate how bad payback on the Horde will be for us. We narratively SHOULD have been disbanded, but we can’t because we’re playable.
NO ONE WINS HERE.
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And I’m not asking for payback. Only as a last resort if the Horde cannot atone for what they’ve done. is it really that humiliating for you that the Horde tries to make up for what they’ve done?
What can we do to atone? Have Thrall fulfill his promise and bring Sylavanas’s head?
Oh, that deprives Tyrande her revenge. Can’t have that!
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Actively have horde members help the Night elves rebuild. Leave Ashenvale. Concrete actions like that, instead of preparing for another war.
To put it this way. The horde has never tried to make up for any of their actions. If they started now, then it would show that they are capable of change.
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So swallow our rock bottom pride for your sake.
For one who lashes at others for not caring about Alliance pride, you seem to care awfully little for ours.
Give me something to repair our pride as well and then there can be a serious discussion.
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When has the Alliance ever atoned for their actions?
Jaina’s got loads of blood on her hands and the narrative whipped around to “oh, she’s good now!” without her atoning once or helping a single person she’s hurt.
I don’t know why the Horde needs to be held to such a higher standard than the Alliance, the supposed “good” faction, in your eyes.
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(Commentary): I can’t think of a solution for the Horde. Even if the Night Elves forgive the Horde, the ultimate question that needs to be asked is, can the Horde forgive itself? That is a difficult question to answer. If it can, it suggests that the Horde really has no lasting understanding of the sheer magnitude of the crime they committed. If they can’t, then the Horde is forever saddled with said guilt.
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Why don’t you understand the fact that you keep returning to this point is the problem that I have?
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What do you think would repair the Horde’s pride? I don’t think it’s incompatible with what I want, unless it involves fighting the Alliance.
Jaina’s got loads of blood on her hands and the narrative whipped around to “oh, she’s good now!” without her atoning once or helping a single person she’s hurt.
Because she was hurt before that. Her hurt made her act like that. A victim becoming more like the ones who hurt her. Which makes her far more understandable than the Horde.
But I am not opposed to the Alliance making ammends as well. Just know the Horde has more to make up for.
We live in a world where a prominent Alliance noble family is named “Trollbane” because of how many Trolls they murdered off their own lands to carve out their little colonialist kingdom.
I don’t see a single bit of guilt on the Alliance’s end for that?
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I feel like the only way the Horde can, not only atone, but also forgive itself and find it’s way back to a sense of pride, is to do exactly what Thrall promised. Bring what is owed. This isn’t to say the Horde is completely reliant on Night Elf forgiveness… It is simply the right and honorable thing to do. Saurfang’s whole point was that the Horde preaches honor, but never embodied it. It is time for that to change, and for the Horde to start putting their money where their mouth is.
Sure, you can blame a lot of it on writing… But the point is, this is where we are, and this is the way forward for the Horde. The Night Elves are owed and it is time for the Horde to deliver.
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And the orcs named their city after the person who razed stormwind to the ground. We haven’t called you out for that either.
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I’m not saying the Horde doesn’t have blood on it’s hands.
I’m saying the Alliance has done heinous enough crap that playing the perfect moral victim here is dumb. Especially when certain people using it as an argument to try to ruin the story for half the playerbase just so they can smugly lord over them slightly more than they already are.
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No. The scales weren’t even balanced before bfa. And now, yours are by an order of magnitude heavier.
I’m not looking to lord over anyone. I was a lot more content with the story before bfa. But I can’t ignore something like Teldrassil. I desire such an event to have ramifications, that are felt far and wide. Because and event like that deserves it.
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