The horde was objectively smarter than the Alliance in the broken shore. It’s great.
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No the Horde were objectively cowards who’s words mean nothing of value.
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Meh, just some dead civilians. No bigs
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(Commentary): I think it’d be very interesting to see the orphans of Teldrassil’s burning grow up into an elite force, bound by a sense of brother/sisterhood and a desire for justice, personally trained by Maeiv Shadowsong in combat, and Jarod Shadowsong in Warfare. A tight-knit group that leaves none behind and fiercely defends their homelands, and when a message needs to be sent to the enemies of the Kaldorei, they do so with fire. That said, I’m not super keen on them getting villain-batted either.
(Speculative): Let’s say, as an example, they attack a Horde settlement in Ashenvale. Maybe the priests in their ranks have learned the prayers to make Elune put people to sleep, as she did for Night Elves trapped in Teldrassil. So the inhabitants wake up, bound and gathered in the center of the settlement. Their children stand near their Kaldorei captors. One by one each child is release to find their mother, father, and any siblings. These families are then set aside. The remainder of the settlement is then slaughtered one by one in brutal fashion in front of those being spared, before the entire place is set on fire. The captives are escorted to the Northern Barrens or Azshara where their armaments are restored to them.
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“The horde didn’t entirely fall for the trap that the Alliance’s sheer incompetence got everyone into, what cowards”
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Horde didn’t get to stomp on the alliance playerbase for the purge of Dalaran or the murdering of their civillians by the Alliance. I don’t see why alliance posters feel that they are so damn entitled to get to be sadists towards the other faction when the shoe’s on the other foot.
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And neither did I get to avenge Gilneas, southshore, or the sludge fields. No matter how you cut it, The Alliance have far more grieviences against the Horde than the reverse.
All i’m asking is that this time, the Horde atones, or get’s punished. I’m fine with forgetting all the other grudges, but not Teldrassil.
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So let me ask you a question then.
Do you think it’s okay to hang a story of unreachable repentance, and endless justified vengeance against them, around Horde players’ necks for the remainder of the game’s life because of this single event?
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(Commentary): I think that’s a question to ask the developers and writers rather than yours truly. Speaking for myself, unless I was going to create an unending story of unreachable repentance and endless justified vengeance against the Horde, I never would’ve had the Horde commit genocide in the first place.
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That’s a dodge.
Sure, I’d love to make it so the story hadn’t turned out as it is, but we can’t change that now. But here’s the specific point I want to make, because the post you were replying to discussed the possibility of a time skip. As I see it, the purpose of a time skip is to let the story progress to a point where it might logically be able to deal with a lot of the current baggage.
What you (and the person you are replying to) are proposing is to never let the story advance beyond this point. The acrimony on the forums now, between the players, would never go away. This bitter fighting, unreasonable proposals, point-scoring, and all-around bad behavior would continue perpetually.
If you never let the story move past Teldrassil, then that’s what you’ll get. And I’m sure that I will get several replies from people saying that, yes, they would prefer to hold onto their anger forever than let the story move forward. It just seems to me like it would be a shame to waste perhaps the only narrative device they have to deal with this albatross to instead intensify and dig both sides in deeper.
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But you can’t ignore such a massive event. Why bother getting immersed in the story if we’re gonna ignore the parts we don’t like. Teldrassil is part of the Horde’s history now, unless they decide to do the biggest retcon immaginable.
And I get that it’s easy to want to move past this event, when you lose absoultely nothing by doing so. But Alliance players will lose whatever pride they have left is Teldrassil is ignored, and no real consequences are felt.
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(Commentary): On this point, I disagree. The timeskip in which the orphans of Teldrassil end up as some tight-knit elite unit of Kaldorei combatants with actual morals but also incredibly effective and savage methods of combat and warfare that blends WC3 elements of Night Elves with the actual story of Teldrassil, is a way of letting the story move forward. Maybe it’s not a way forward Horde players want. They have to see the Alliance grow competent and this army of orphans created by the actions of the Horde exist.
(Commentary): As I proposed it, this army fights the enemies of the Kaldorei. I provided an example of the Horde being in Night Elf lands and being removed, one where those orphans decide to be better, to not make orphans as well, but to remind the Horde of it’s crimes. Yes, I think the Horde needs to remember Teldrassil forever, because those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.
(Commentary): That having been said, I don’t see such an order of orphans as just being antagonists towards the Horde. They fight all the enemies of the Night Elves. Horde today, Voidlords tomorrow, Naaru next Sunday, etc… Who is to say the Horde cannot work towards redemption in the eyes of the Night Elves? Even should the Horde manage to do something to earn forgiveness in the eyes of the Kaldorei, I continue to posit this group should be a constant reminder, forever, of the Horde’s actions, because its clear now that the writers refuse to let the Horde be good on it’s own.
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Notice I didn’t say “ignore” but “logically deal with”.
Some things require a lot of time to happen feasibly. If you want to instead time-skip ahead to a point where things could have been dealt with, and instead choose to have had that anger fester for however many years the time skip was, then that’s it. You’ve basically saddled the game with a deeply unenjoyable story forever - if current posters on both sides are to be taken at face value, for EVERYONE - barring an even more enormous buttpull.
Fun fact: We play the game to enjoy it, not to be moralized at by it for our choice of faction which did things that we were not told it would do. What this tells me is that you do want Horde players to be stuck with a story of chasing unattainable repentance where everything that is done to them forever is justified.
Preach to your choir all you like, but all this tells me is that you are uninterested in the Horde player’s experience.
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Of course I want to fix this. But I don’t want to pretend or have others pretend that Teldrassil doesn’t matter, when it is one of the most impactful moments in the game’s history. I would much have prefered it never happened, but now that it has it should have far reaching consequences. my ideal scenario honestly is that all the dead elves are magically restored to life at the end of the shadowlands, so that we can put it behind us. But if that doesn’t happen then it should loom over the Horde forever.
1 Like
Agreed. These posters want to have their cake and eat it too regarding the faction war, and just want to be nasty to Horde players and be “justified” while they get lauded for their choice of faction.
Its insanely weird, but Blizzard’s been encouraging it, so whatever.
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(Observation): Preach to your choir all you like, but all this tells me is that you are uninterested in the Alliance player’s experience.
(Commentary): I think the question you’re not asking is how can this story be made enjoyable for Horde players? Truth be told I don’t think it can be. I think it was an absolutely stupid story decision to begin with, but I also don’t think sweeping it under the rug is any better. Do you think Alliance players come to the game, not to enjoy it, but to be victimized because of our choice of faction?
(Commentary): I remain firm in my opinion. The Horde needs to never be allowed to forget Teldrassil, ever. Where that leads, I don’t know. There was never any scenario where this could ever end positively. Personally, I expect Blizzard to pull another, ‘Draenor is Free,’ moment to sweep it under the rug.
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he says while championing having the game story crapping all over the Horde player personally for his own amusement
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Compared your ideal story where Alliance players are left to dry, never allowed to retaliate or even hold grieviences?
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(Satire): He writes while championing having the game story crapping all over the Alliance player personally for his own peace of mind.
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At one point, I was sympathetic. I think there was a lot more give-and-take at the beginning. There was recognition that everyone had gotten screwed. But as of late, all I get are howling condemnations and people telling me I should firmly be stuck with an unenjoyable story forever. The point I was originally making is that this story - and proposing to continue this story - simply is going to ensure that both sides never do anything besides preach to their own choirs.
Of course not. That being said, do Horde players regularly and in every thread that isn’t even pertinent to the subject call for the Alliance to be swept aside and ignored? I think not, at least not to the same degree as legions of NE avatars do that to Horde players. Moreover, as much as some people may be loath to admit it, the Alliance is getting some narrative satisfaction.
Look at this thread. It’s about how Thrall was basically a giant b*tch before Tyrande, because she holds all the power and he has none. The NE story is continuing. The NE are getting some kind of continuation, some kind of progress in their story. The Horde is a cratered shambles, and IS being swept under the rug. The beta story had to be rewritten because it literally depicted the two Horde characters of note moping powerlessly in a corner.
We are not getting anything of value, and it feels like that all of this is overlooked in the repeated calls for additional punishment.
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