Npc’s naturally. With maybe an optional quest that rewards some gold. This is aimed at the faction, not the players.
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I’m glad. Because the Horde needs our identity back. Without good story focus we’ll never get there. Our themes, roster, and overall purpose are in tatters and so far Blizz seems content to do nothing with it. Which is pretty typical.
If there’s one thing I want for the Horde out of Shadowlands its for the Forsaken to get closure with Sylvanas. They deserve to know why their Dark Lady threw them aside and deserve some payback of their own. She’s the one who taught them how to be vengeful after all.
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I’m rather relieved to read your reply. I have a feeling a lot of Alliance players would have responded the opposite. At least that’s the impression I get reading the forums.
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The funny thing is, I wouldn’t even be opposed to opt-in rebuilding quests and would probably do them myself. I just have this mental image of the whole effort being wasted because Blizzard considers the faction divide essential to the franchise, so the game feels hardlocked into never having a proper resolution.
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I actually doubt that. The vast majority of Alliance players wants the Horde, as an entity compromised by npcs and characters, to either atone or be punished. Even players like Liira wants this. They just tend to get a bit to much “into it”. And understandibly get’s upset when some Horde players go “nuh uh, you shouldn’t get anything. Pound sand.”
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It would be fun a storyline about working towards peace.
Have Alliace help Zandalar and other places, have the Horde go after Sylvanas loyalists.
But yeah, its warcraft not peacecraft, i just wish they wouldn’t put characters in terrible spots because of that.
At the start of BFA, someone on these forums actually said Horde players should pay a penalty. He said he believed we should have some consequences for choosing our factions.
As far as Liira, I’ll try to give her the benefit of the doubt, but I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re mistaken about her.
Overall, I think that I usually see “alliance vs. horde” discussions missing the extra bit: to be conscious about the fact that we’re discussing the logic of the events, or trying to put it into the story, but the devs seem to just use faction conflict as a rather worthless filler that sucks out time and other development resources that could be used elsewhere.
So, while it’s nice to discuss the events and try to turn it into a useful feedback, it would be nice to keep that distinction in mind: what we’re discussing and what would probably make sense, is not the same as what is convenient for the devs, and in which direction they can twist the story and characters regardless of it making any sense in the eyes of the players.
Those are not mutually exclusive things.
Well, I do not know how other people feel about it, but I would like to see either step by step getting rid of factions and limitations that it brings, and instead focus development resources on something else, or to stick to the faction conflict as a core of the story. I just hate going back and forth. But either one of them would be fine IMO.
To be honest, what would help to repair pride more: Lor’themar’s approach to “let’s pretend we’re not involved and wait till everyone forgets”, or honestly say “yeah, that was 
, let’s build a better future together”?
Oh well, where are those rpg-elements that the devs were talking about when they are actually needed. Instead we have… this.
Well, you did not ask me, but what I am personally looking for lately is the answer for the question. When I talk to people and the story of the game, it could be fun, with many events and somewhat hidden elements, an interesting puzzle. But when I look at the reaction of the players, it’s frequently frustration and confusion. So, I am curious, where is this break point. How an interesting story falls apart during the transition into a video game form.
So, if I had a magic wand and could make other people shift the way they approach the story topics, I would like to use it to convince people to take a look at the events, and discuss how it could evolve, how the story could get where it is, what are the alternatives, and so on. [without making it personal]
Actually, you know, maybe, just maybe, if Shadowlands will be commercially better than BfA, maybe it could be possible to highlight to Hazzikostas that it is because of more attention to the feedback, so maybe it is a good idea to pay attention to the feedback on the story side too. Maybe… Well, I can hope that there is a more than 0% chance of success.
gl hf
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Aye. We players clearly think a lot more about the story, and think a lot more about the consequences of large scale events like Teldrassil, than the devs do. They really need to stop treating the game like a comic book, and instead treat it like one big session of dnd where they are the game masters that has to create a fun and engaging story, that also makes sense.
And ultimately I don’t understand why Blizzard decided to make the burning happen. Why make Alliance players hate the opposite faction, when they very clearly did not intend for an equal retribution. Perhaps they simply underestimated the attachment people have for places like Teldrassil, and to the races they play. And I hope that they have learned that, so that they won’t create storylines like this that have no payoff ever again. But that is probably being very optimistic.
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I would rather prefer her going to the alliance and freeing the spot to develop actually forsaken character(s)
Why not? She is pro peace, would make sense for her to go in that direction.
Could be a nice change of pace. Win some, loose some. Maybe even occasionally trade zones here and there. Or keep “proxy wars” on other, out of the box not faction affiliated territories.
There are always (usually) more. But it depends on the state of the story at a specific time.
Canonically it was the horde who saved the world from the dangers of G’huun. Horde alone. Why is this not showcased? Why (I think) most people do not know about it? Why is it not the part of the narrative overall? Why the alliance does not learn that the horde risked a lot to do it, and in a round about way maybe ease or do something good for the alliance too? I have no idea. Would it even be bad from the story perspective to let each faction has something like that from time to time?
Now that is asking too much. When it’s “peace time”, the devs do not use it to show internal conflicts, some people unable to let go old grudges, backstabbing spying, and so on. So, I am not even sure if they can pull off something like that.
A bit of this here and there should not be a problem. It makes sense that some races or character could have better understanding of the situation than the rest. As long as it’s not all the same characters or just the same faction over and over again, I do not think that is a bad idea. If that would be portrayed as a way for one faction to also learn more about the other, etc.
Well… I can’t say how everyone feels about it, but if there would be a real chance to drop factions, maybe people would be fine with getting over Teldrassil. But not as a way to shrug it off, but to use as a symbol that the factions, as they were, led to things like that, so it is a time to do something better. To use it as a scary reminder, motivating to try to be better, to not stay and wait while evil things happen, or whatever.
Now, the story would go in a different direction if the goal would be to keep the faction conflict. But, given that the devs just hop back and forth when convenient, maybe it’s a good idea to stop hoping that the devs can make a good story around it and be prepared for another disappointment should they ever try to resume it again.
But all of it is just me rumbling, and have nothing to do with what the devs will put in.
I don’t know, I did not play since MoP 
Might not stay after Shadowlands either, time will tell.
Not really. If it’s framed as “working together to overcome old hatred and to better understand each other”. Each side could have a moment to shine, to do something stupid, but ultimately, it’s not like it’s totally impossible to move on. But… it’s me talking about my vision. I am not sure if others would want it. I am not sure if the devs could go in that direction. Which is really strange, because that is the narrative they like the most, “only together we can defeat insert next big bad’s name”.
gl hf
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Thrall continuing to be the coward he has always been these past 10 years. Now kissing the Alliances feet more so than ever as the Horde continues to look like spineless wimps.
Gimme proof Tyrande knew they were on the verge of extinction. Also gimme proof the tauren asked for help.
People who state this make three assumptions:
- The night elves knew about tauren being hunted to extinction (which is different from tauren warring with the centaur).
- The night elves weren’t walled off in Northern Kalimdor at the time.
- The tauren asked for help. / Night elves are caretakers for tauren who can’t even ask for help.
There is way too much biased onus placed on night elves in this scenario. If the night elves could twice directly aid their expelled cousins across the sea, why wouldn’t they aid a neighbor race they had friendly relations with?
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It’s just a pity all the good names are taken. Like the Ashen Verdict, or the Ashen.
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People put a very odd emphasis on “Cenarius’ grandkids” as if Cenarius had some sort of positive connection with them. Cenarius didn’t even directly have any involvement with the Centaur, as explained by Zaetar’s Spirit:
- Do not be alarmed, young <race>. I am Zaetar, son of Cenarius, and I come to you for your assistance.
Long ago, I made the mistake of mating with Princess Theradras, a powerful earth elemental aligned with the Old Gods. Our children, the centuar Kahns, turned on me upon birth and slew me mercilessly. Now, Theradras’ taint runs deep and threatens far more than just Maraudon.
Come slay her and free my spirit so that we may restore Desolace to a place of verdant life and promise, as Cenarius would want.
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So would I, but that isn’t the hand we’ve been dealt. We managed to throw a big enough fit that she won’t just be plopped into the role, but we’re likely stuck with her. All we can do now is look for ways to make her work in the long run.
She had a chance to try to placate a Sunreaver during BFA and effectively said, “Yeah, that purge was pretty wild.” She didn’t even immediately register why Talanji is upset at the armistice during Shadows Rising, only realizing she was the problem after Thrall reminded her. She’s made no effort to smooth over either of those tensions so far.
While this would solve a lot of issues, we simply have to accept this won’t happen. If there was a time to end factions it would have been after Legion, but instead we’ve tripled down on them.
Also, sorry for doing my part in derailing your thread Amadis. It’s getting harder and harder to stay on topic lately with all the resentment being tossed around.
Overall, I don’t mind Thrall trying to play diplomat and apologize for that happened to the Kal’dorei. Trying to smooth things over is fine, as is giving Sira as a gesture of good faith. However, I am a bit disgruntled that he is offering Sylvanas up as an offering for the Kal’dorei before his own faction, who should be frothing at the mouth after being betrayed by their Warchief.
He’s willing to stand up for himself and the Horde, having to stop himself from snapping at Tyrande. He does snap at Anduin later and doesn’t appear to be happy he has to remind Jaina of her part in Rastakhan’s death. That’s more of a spine than Baine has.
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I would ask “why seek for homogenisation instead of building on what makes each faction different and unique”. And adding new zones does not have to happen over night. Could have one extra in one expansion. Another one a bit later, and so on.
Is it really? Khadgar and co at the beginning of Legion claiming that “only together…”. Same with Crossroads cinematic. Same even in Warcraft 3 and Medivh gathering races together. Chronicles stating in the preface as one of key story elements of Warcraft is to “see humanity in each other”.
There is no commitment to explore the topic. Just start the fire and then go “oops. Time to stop. Big bad is incoming!” thus making the whole premise of war just… a sunk cost fallacy. It was about war at some point, in strategy games, thus it has to continue even when the current dev team sees the main point of the story in fighting together against yet another world threat.
Wasn’t there something strange with warmode and questionable advantages coming with it?
Well, it could be one of those examples when people have a favourite hobby and then the devs just on it. I wish Liira would just view the story as a display of stupidity from the writers, instead of hating the players. Maybe she is to the forum like Sira to Tyrande? Actually, I think this analogy might be correct. What the devs did to some players is similar to what Sylvanas did to Sira.
IMO better to repeat the “Before the Storm” route: let some forsaken reunite with their families and take Calia with them so they would not be shot on sight before they get anywhere.
That’s… odd. Isn’t she the one of those pushing the idea of peace?
@Amadis sorry for a lot of offtop stuff.
gl hf
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It’s been years and years since cata and people are still complaining about the Horde getting an equal playing field zone wise. You 100% know the answer to this already.
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We indeed do. Because Morghel answered the question:
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Yeah. Me neither. He admits he might be consumed by rage in the same situation. OTOH, he doesn’t think it is right to be that way and hope Tyrande isn’t.
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I think the idea is that Cenarius, as the closest thing the centaur had to a paternal figure after Zaetar was killed by them, should’ve stepped forward to guide them down a less destructive path.
I don’t know how feasible that is given centaurs are apparently just biologically predisposed to violence (A trope I genuinely hate, but it is what it is), but you’d think he’d make the attempt.
Not that I blame Cenarius. This is just another example of fairly shallow world building on Blizzard’s part. Largely because in the original WC3 lore Tauren and Night Elves didn’t have such close bonds as they were given in WoW.
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