Shadowlands PvP is officially BFA 2.0

Livestream interview with Ion, a couple things to note
-they do not intend on disabling conduits and legendary gear in pvp
-they want your covenant choice to be as unchangeable as your class choice
-no pvp power
Those were the big hitters that told me they spent actually 0 time at all thinking about pvp

Here’s the link

Edit: almost forgot the best answer he gave, Ion is sticking with the idea that 2400 is equal to the highest M+ rewards, he said any class can time a +20 and any class can hit 2400, no sh!t Sherlock, but not every player is good enough to hit 2400, but anyone yolo max mythic plus gear, or just pay for it and then they have the run complete in 30 minutes, there’s nothing remotely equal between the two


we havent seen the systems implemented yet so complaining is pointless. also at 1750 3s rating none of these systems will impact you in the slightest


You aren’t getting the meaning of the post, they are not making effort to make pvp any different from how it is now, which is garbage. SL pvp is looking to be the same as it is now with pve giving you gear and power, and people who just want to pvp continuing to be shafted


you dont know that at all we have yet to even beta test it

Man I would love to have your optimism, to not have 13 years of experience with being disappointed with blizzard and know what they mean when they use words to communicate, it’s literally spelled out for you, mythic+ gear is going to still be better because they are making it so that 2400 rating and +15 gear are equal, meaning the new pvp gear benthic system is going to be rating gated, if you want to upgrade your gear higher you have to be a higher rating, meaning mythic+ is once again going to be the best system for gearing, they also aren’t doing any kind of pvp stat meaning that broken pve trinkets and items with effects will be op in pvp like they are now, add covenant abilities being a choice between performance or cosmetics, conduits being another borrowed power, and the legendary system all being active in pvp because, and this is a direct quote “the last thing we want to do is disable something completely” said in the interview I’m taking about, and the entire interview being a pvp specific interview, like come on dude open your eyes and read

edit: and they definitely wont decrease the potency of pve gear in pvp because then pve players will complain again about how unfair pvp is, thats why this system exists in the first place, so dragonslayers can hop into pvp, outgearing everyone, and smash people with pure ilvl gap instead of skill, blizz goes above and beyond to make pve players happy, screw everyone else


I kinda don’t know I feel yet. He does mention how they messed up with Azerite the neck and then corruption. Atleast this time we don’t have all that.

Legendaries for the most part aren’t really “legendaries” as a lot of them are pretty much Azerite traits now or a set bonus. Nothing crazy like we have now.

So atleast so far how strong you are is how you play, not like gushing wounds or inf stars or something doing all your damage passively.

We will have to see, but. I definitely don’t think it will be BFA 2.0

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you are right to an extent, i was a little dramatic, but, pve gear will continue to be top in pvp, and pve gear always has crazy procs and effects that, until bfa, had very little impact on pvp, and now we see just how crazy those effects can be, i mean drest and bike are just two trinkets that can take half a players health if they crit during a burst window, geti has been the go to melee weapon all xpac because the bleed effect is just so strong, add to that that pvp gear will never be as optimized with secondaries as pve gear and it just feels like another disappointing xpac for people who just want to enjoy pvp


You have every right to feel that way too. I’ve played since vanilla too and seen how everything has been good and bad from back in the day to now.

On the plus side though which is the first time I can say I was actually super surprised was the othe day when ion said they wanted to get people testing pvp in beta early so they can see ahead of time what is crazy broken and what needs help in pvp.

Honestly was pleasantly surprised to hear pvp is atleast being mentioned like that


I think I am starting to see the error of my forum ways.

Part of what iv’e done here is create stress that otherwise wouldn’t have existed. I think this post does something similar. I think it stirs up anger on a subject that is still in it’s early stages.

Let’s wait a while and remain optimistic about this. I hope the system will work well, but it’s honestly to early to start rioting or invoking anger over this.


absolutely, and they could surprise us and put ilvl caps on non pvp gear in pvp content, they could tune down pve item effects to be essentially worthless in pvp, but the problem remains is that blizzard never communicates to the pvp community their intent, they kind of give vague answers for q&as unless to counter what people are asking for, then throw the system at us and say “here, this is what we could be bothered to make work, take it or leave it”


IMO none of this was ever the issue. The issue has always been that PVE is the only way to gear up in order to compete in PvP content.

PvP gear did not drop at a progressive rate as much as PvE loot does. The only way to secure that is if you were able to maintain a high rating - which in of itself requires you to usually have better gear or whichever class the xpac favors.


there is no optimism left, blizzard has been continually disappointing fans since cataclysm, i started in TBC, so i got 3 1/2 years of real quality wow, then cata was lackluster, mop was a step in the right direction and i will argue that mop was the best time in wow history for a pvp player, and then wod pruned and disappointed some more, legion was great for casuals but if you wanted to pvp it was another disappointment because gearing was awful, and having alts was a nightmare, and then bfa cam along and doubled down on just terrible gearing, bad systems, awful pvp, and being even worse for players who wanted more than one character, so ive run out of optimism, every patch and expansion i imagine the worst possible ways blizz can disappoint us so that what they do give us isnt as bad as what i imagined, though bfa, i couldnt have possibly dreamed of bfa being as bad as it is


I mean pve gear was always better then pvp in arena in wotlk if u had shadowmourne you could get your gf free glad

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and you are right, gearing is the main issue, pvp has always been at its best when the gear you earn from participating in pvp, was also the best gear for pvp, pvp stats or not, even wod, which had no pvp stats, made the pvp gear better than pve gear in instanced arenas or bgs


The thing is WoW is an MMORPG first. It was created as an MMORPG. In order for you to progress in the game you need to progress in the content. PvP was a side product from the very start. Blizzard wants to return the game to its roots. In order for your hero to be powerful he should be well versed in the content. If you only want to play PvP why do you care about gear at all? If you dont wouldnt other games suit you better like Street Fighter. I don’t understand why you choose to play an MMORPG for 13 years but dont enjoy 98% of what the game is about. You expect laser focus on the 2% playerbase playing for PvP only. I mean you can want until you are blue in the face or just find another game that was actually created for PvP content.

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thats not your entire gear set though is it, there are times throughout wow history where one item made its way in and was op, but those items were never available to every jim, bob, and joe, shadowmoure was exceedingly rare to come across, now anyone and their uncle can be decked out in absurdly powerful pve gear, and sure the counter argument to that is “well then just get the op pve gear.” the problem with that is that we want to pvp, we have always been able to progress in pvp gearing through pvp to do better, now you have to spend most of your time grinding pve to spend a little of your time doing pvp, and that makes the game not fun to play, it would be the same as telling a mythic raid guild that they now have to all grind arenas all day getting to 2400 rating and maintaining it so that they can get gear to do their raids because the raid gear isnt as good


Looking at 475 gear from pvp and pve this season there are a few pvp pieces that have insanely high amounts of vers making them invaluable in pvp. And in the same vein, there are some pvp pieces that have other stats of an exorbitant amount like haste on plate legs making it great for pve. In short, it looks like you’ll have to play pvp and pve to optimize your character.

I never understand this argument people have, why do we care about gear? Because its an MMORPG thats part of the appeal, making your character more powerful to compete against other players, wow has always had a different pvp playstyle compared to other games, other pvp games arent as fun, pvp has also had a working gearing system for pvp players for, oh what was it, 10 years? Most of the games lifespan? We want the system that was fun to come back, we arent asking for some radical new system just for us, we want to return to what we had that lasted a decade.


You never been above 2k in arena so maybe its not about the pve gear.

And that’s not a good thing. PvErs don’t like to PvP and PvPers don’t like to PvE, generally. Change is deserved.