I mean yeah, honestly “Lowborn Scum” is a pretty tame way to refer to the people that tried to eradicate your entire culture and civilization. And … yeah, I got Sympathy for the “Highborne” because the vestiges of the Highborne civilization are Horde races; and generally I like that they’re flawed. I like that that they’re arrogant. I like that, even if they’re slow to move towards the future, they still move towards the future in their own flawed, fumbling, ways.
But … no. My argument here is more portraying the optics of how Blizz portrays such a genocidal act on an Alliance race; and on the Horde faction. The NEs are portrayed as right to wipe out the entire Highborne culture and civilization. They are right to have done it deliberately, and systematically … for years. They are right to hold contempt and mistrust for the NBs, who’s real greatest crime is preserving a part of the very community the NEs took great pains to destroy.
Where as the Horde, which was a part of a genocidal act … was not deliberately attempting to actually wipe out the Kaldorei; with the exception of Sylvie herself. The War of Thornes up until the burning of Teldrassil was honestly fairly unremarkable as military actions between two opposing political entities go. And the Darkshore events afterwards, while oozing with Forsaken nonsense, was also fairly unremarkable once Blizz removed the Death Camps. It was Horde races fighting against Kaldorei attacking them with the only method that really works against the NEs; denying them their terrain advantage. There was no real systematic attempts to hunt down and cull the surviving NEs by the Horde, beyond those that were actively attacking the Horde. Hell, the Alliance’s terrible tactics actually do more damage to the NEs after Teld than the Horde itself.
Both acts are monstrous … but only one is portrayed as a greater good.
Are you… serious? You’re really seriously going to make that much of a hypocritical point? White-knighting the Highborne because you don’t like that their culture was pushed down…
After the Highborne tried to genocide every other culture on the planet.
I like you Droité. But that's some high grade hypocrisy.
No, its not hypocrisy. A fraction of the Highborne, most loyal to Azshara, were those that attempted the eradication of all other sentient life on Azeroth. However, lets take a look at the Court of Forondis for example. Or Surumar for example. Neither of these groups supported Azshara’s madness in the end, and responded in different ways. Forondis and his people were cursed; Surumar isolated itself waiting for the storm to pass in the hopes they could survive it. Neither of these acts make them evil … or even genocidal. The Shen’dralar also were no less guilty of Azshara’s crimes behind hiding themselves away.
Lets assume for the moment that the citizens of Surumar had sided with the NE rebellion. Lets assume for the moment that the Court of Forondis had managed to survive long enough to do the same. Lets assume that characters like Ellisandre; Farondis; Thallsyra; Oculeth; and Valtrois survived the war. What would their conclusion be in the post sundering world? Well, the same as Dath’remar’s people I’d wager. Abandon your lifes work in the Arcane and convert; Die, being executed as a dangerous heritic … despite the fact that you fought with us to defeat Azshara; or be exiled into an unknown world … with no idea if you are to survive the journey.
For a Kaldorei that emulated, lived, and loved the Kaldorei Empire civilization and culture … or was fascinated in the world and science of the arcane … there was no win condition in the War of the Ancients for them. Side with Azshara … and be destroyed; or side with the rebellion … and be destroyed. The fact that you are justifying a genocide because of whome was genocided shows just how absurd the framing of Alliance races truly is.
You are right on Farondis. But that Suramar’s elite stopped supporting Azshara at the end of the war is meaningless to your point because they supposed Azshara at the start of the war. Suramar’s elite were pro-genocide. They did not turn against Azshara because they decided genocide was a bad thing. They turned on her because they predicted that the Legion was going to turn on them.
Dath’Remar’s people were the same as Suramar’s elite. They supported Azshara at the start of the war. They were the ones keeping the portal open for the Legion so the Legion would enact their genocide for them. Dath’Remar’s people turned on Azshara because the Legion abused them.
Pretty much, they deserved to die. The Highborne, whether they were of the Elites or not (because there was a spectrum even within their own ranks. The 1 percent and the .01 percent) … deserved to die. Deserved to be eradicated. Deserved to watch their culture and civilization go extinct. The Night Elves … are right to have committed an intentional, deliberate, systematic Genocide of an entire group of people. Despite the fact that the NEs also benefitted from the Kaldorei Empire … prior to Azshara going to far and summoning the Legion.
They could not have cared less if Azshara had eradicated the Troll species; just as they could not have given a crap if Cenarius’ grandkids wiped out the Tauren. They only started to care, when it became apparent her nonsense was a risk to them all.
The Highborne lived with the other Night Elves on Mount Hyjal for 2,700 years before they rebelled. And even when they broke the laws against magic they were not killed.
You want cultural genocide? Look to the Horde burning the Shen’dralar’s library.
“Apparent her nonsense was a risk to them all?” You mean when glowing green demons came out of nowhere and started killing Night Elves before they went to kill anyone else? Because that’s when Azshara’s nonsense started. Azshara never tried to genocide the Trolls or anyone else before that.
A.k.a. Suramar’s Highborne and Dath’Remar’s Highborne.
The only reason Azshara didnt eradicated the Trolls was because what she left them with was of so little value that they weren’t worth the effort anymore. She essentially broke them, but you could bet your butt if something of enough value to her popped up in one of those pathetic broken kingdoms … she would have wiped them out in a heartbeat. But … whatever. Lets just agree to disagree on this, but it does sort of prove my point. Even the most grey act ever committed by the NEs is whitewashed to such extremes that the printer ran out of ink.
Honestly, if Blizz didn’t keep using the NEs as a punching bag, they’d essentially be a perfect race of perfect people; within a perfect society. More magical, more beautiful, more agile, stronger, wiser, and more intelligent than any other race. So “evolved” that they’ve moved past the petty need for Arcane technology, like their closest peer the Draenei’s still rely on. Not that it would matter, because even the Draenei aren’t the “chosen people” of the one and only “real” God in the entire Warcraft Universe. They follow magic chandelier Aliens … pshh … anyone can do that lol!
There’s nothing to agree to disagree on. I am not arguing against your point that the Highborne were repressed under Tyrande and Malfurion’s law. Nor am I arguing against your point that the Night Elves under Tyrande and Malfurion’s never really did anything wrong.
I am loudly pointing out that the Highborne you are upset about having their culture infringed upon desired to wipe out all other cultures on the planet.
Which you have not made any sound disagreement against.
You’re not wrong at all, the Highborne under Azshara were monsters. But in the fallout of her reign’s collapse, the NEs took things way too far. The level of extremes they went to to purge the vestiges of the Culture of the Kaldorei Empire were disturbing; and are more representative a radicalized religion who just overthrew a government and is trying solidify its rule, rather than a group of people doing a difficult thing for the betterment of all.
Few things, if anything, the NEs did to those representative of the Highborne culture and civilization was justified; beyond simple arrests and executions of those most deserving of it. But, the universal, inflexible, Arcane Elf execution order was truly insane … and you can tell how insane it was when only 10 years ago Malf tried to be progressive and lift it … and it resulted an attempted culling of the Shen’dralar by one of the Kaldorei’s own. A character, btw, who has suffered zero consequences for that … because Blizz probably forgot about it.
There is nothing to say that the Night Elves did anything to take away any of the Highborne’s knowledge nor aesthetics. Clearly the Highborne that became the High Elves retained so much of their cultural knowledge that they were able to reproduce it (if painting it over in sun theme instead of moon theme) in its entirety in Quel’Thalas.
And the Night Elves were right to ban magic. Everything that happened from the first Warcraft on can be traced back to the High Elves teaching Humans magic and letting them practice it outside their protective veil, starting with needing to make the Council of Tirisfal and the Guardian to counter the demons that were showing up because of the naked use of magic, leading right to Medivh bringing the Horde to Azeroth.
Yes. This is nonsense, especially when Maiev tried to kill Malfurion for it. Maiev tried to kill Malfurion before Sylvanas did. And no one will ever bring it up.
Hmm … well, “right” seems to be oversimplifying things. Anything is bad for you in extremes; with the exception of apparently nature magic because I guess Blizz never thought it would be fun to make a radicalized Emerald Dream cult that wanted to fulfill the old interpretation of what the Emerald Dream was. A vision of Azeroth swept clean of sentient races.
Also … yes … my god … what is with how they’ve been using Maiev? Just about the only thing more disturbing than seeing all that Forsaken crap all over Darkshore, and the raising of Undead NEs … was seeing Maiev leading Shen’dralar lol! Also … seriously? Are we ever going to get a reason why Sylvie went to such extremes to raise the Undead NEs? Did Sira and Summermoon go with her little death cult, or are they a part of Voss or Velanora’s groups? Was there a reason Summermoon had that weird glowing magic spot on her palm?
The arcane ban seems pretty weird in retrospect. If it was really so dangerous that the night elves were willing to execute anyone who practiced it, it would be absolutely moronic to simply exile them where they could form their own community and continue without supervision. It shouldn’t have mattered where they practiced it.
They didn’t ban it to stop addition. They banned magic to prevent it being a beacon to the demons and show them where Azeroth was again. Which is exactly what happened when people started using magic outside of the High Elves’ Runestones.
They started this nonsense in Legion with having Maiev suddenly become best friends with the Demon Hunters and Illidan.
She was still trying to kill hope. She failed again.
They’re with Voss. Sylvanas abandons them. Voss takes them with her to Tirisfal Glades to meet Calia. They’ll probably be a customization option for the Night Elves.
Delaryn was probably all sorts of wigged out from being in the Maw.
I agree with all this. But Malfurion was too soft, so what happened happened.
I guess the first explanation makes the most “sense” if both Sira and Summermoon really were left behind. I guess it feels a little anticlimactic, but … whatever it could have been much worse if Blizz invested in it more. I seriously have no idea why Blizz wanted them?
Also, glad to hear they’re with Voss for the moment … I was genuinely worried they were going to get dragged along with Sylvie’s wild death-ride some more. Hopefully the two of them will get some interesting development going forward … to try to make their deaths somewhat worth it.
Finally, Undead NE skins … hmm. That has me thinking. We’ve only heard/seen a few of the future customization options for the races, I do kind of wonder what the NEs will snag? Jewelry like the Draenei? New Tattoos? New Hair? Also, it may be a longshot considering we just got our new models, but if I could ask for one thing only for femGobs … it would be the textured, colored eyebrows they advertised in the concept art.