point of order, the NE rebel army did NOT stand up to their leader as they feverently believed that the highborne (a group that many of the NE society did not like to begin with) were the ones responsible and that queen Azshara was being held hostage. In fact, they used their queen as a battlecry.
Illidan and Malfurion knew the truth, but kept their mouths shut because they knew the rebel leadership would not and could not believe the truth.
Also, while the sundering and inviting the legion was ONE mistake, it was also the greatest mistake in the history of azeroth. The NE, through this single act, have done more damage to azeroth than the burning legion, the old gods, the scourge, and all versions of the hordeâŠcombined. the NE basically broke the world.
Pretty much every single evil event that has happened in the history of azeroth (besides the war against the black empire), can be indirectly attributed to the NE. Now yes, the NE afterwards took upon themselves to be a âwarden of the world,â however much like the horde with the burning of teldrasil, nothing the NE do can remotely make up for the damage they caused.
With Blizzardâs writing team, and their gameplay over story mindset, no it canât. For a lot of players there is either nothing that can be done, or nothing Blizzard is willing to do.
Yes, it would. Itâs the difference between fixing their mistake and not. While you wouldnât let the fact it happened go because they need someone to dope slap them before they go that far again you could at least appreciate the lengths they went to in undoing it all.
I really wish someone would tell us what the plan was, sometime. I have been trying for two years now, and I still cannot wrap my brain around how they thought this would play out in a way that the playerbase would enjoy.
Ohhh, I thought you meant Archbishop Benedictus. That makes much more sense.
If you wouldnât let it go, then why would I want to jump through hoops trying to appease you?
In this particular case I would say the metaphor is more like you gave them the keys to your car and sat by and watched them run over a dog but you only really cared once they ran over your dog.
There are horde players such as yourself who feel like theyâre not responsible for Teldrassil. Any form of punishment or remorse is unfair for something you have no control over.
Then there are those who either donât care, or are happy with Teldrassil. A punishment or penance is unfair because they donât want it.
For them, redemption is pointless. Either the horde is ruined, or the horde should embrace being villains.
Why do you care about alliance players who think the same?
I could say that IRL, I believe in the power of forgiveness. Because I do.
I could say that in war, itâs not always about hatred. Sometimes the soldiers understand that the enemies shooting at them are doing it because they think theyâre doing the right thing, or because they were forced into it by their government, and they donât hold grudges even though both sides are doing their best to kill the other.
I could say that itâs not healthy for the game or the community for players to have that attitude toward other players.
But I know what it all boils down to is that you feel upset and on some level injured by what happened in the game. And thatâs all that matters to you. And Iâm truly sorry that you feel that way.
But what youâre also telling me is that thereâs no way out. There is nothing I or my character can do that will make it go away. Nothing will ever be good enough. Youâre putting both me and my character into a no-win situation.
Because I just feel tired and hopeless and like thereâs no way out of this. I wish WoW could go back to being fun again. Being in a no-win situation (as mentioned in my last post) isnât fun.
But it wasnât my intention to try to change the minds of people who believe the Horde can never redeem itself. Thatâs a losing battle. I just want them to recognize and admit that this is what they believe.
Meh, donât worry about it. Its the patented âYou picked the wrong faction, sucks to be youâ ⊠that tends to be riddled throughout certain segments of the Alliance fanbase. The expectation that the Horde and its fanbase deserves what we get; because Blizz took us for a joyride without any care for the consequences.
Honestly, at this point, since their is no path to âredemptionâ ⊠why the hell should I care about pursuing it? All I want is a stable, healthy, developing Horde; with stable, healthy, developing Horde Races; which include stable, healthy, and developing Horde Reps. Even getting that is asking the nearly impossible from the current Blizzard writing team ⊠so why should I shoot for the stars with a path to âredemptionâ when Blizz wont even likely aim for the moon with building back up what they sent through the meatgrinder solely to push Sylvieâs narrative?
Well someone has to carry Frodo the rest of the way to Mt. Doom and no one else is doing it.
When you got characters who virtually had no story in WoW like Zulâjin or Kargath, the standards are pretty low for âdoing it better than the old writersâ.
Do you see in new characters from WoD up to now that you think are capable of carrying a Horde narrative? Even my favorite AR leader, Thaly, is set up purely as a supporting figure. We have not had any new âmainâ characters in the Horde since Garrosh.
They are not capable of developing interesting and likable âmain protagonistsâ, especially on the Horde. Talanji is the latest of these and sheâs is a walking encyclopedia on how not to make a Horde character.
The thing about developing proper new characters is that we still need old characters to facilitate them into the narrative. If we have no old characters to build off of, there will simply be no investment for people to have in those new characters.
For example Thrall led to Garrosh and Garrosh led to Zaela. Even contemporarily Lorâthemar led to Liadrin and then Liadrin led to Thalysra. Itâs easier to develop new characters when you have a senior character that can establish them quickly within the Horde and have reason to incest in them. Otherwise a writer has to toil around on building an entire character from scratch which may or may not land well like Talanji.
Dude, who cares? The next expansion is literally going to the Shadowlands, youâre expectations for the weight of death should already set at an all-time low. The entire premise of Shadowlands is going into the WC afterlife, going into an expansion like SL with a mindset like that certainly wonât do you any favors.
So youâre trying to equate the Night Elves not believing that Azshara would have ordered genocide, but still fighting Azsharaâs army, only to find out Azshara was leading that army, and so the Night Elves continuing to fight against Azshara to the Horde being fully aware that Sylvanas had ordered genocide and continued to fight for Sylvanas afterwards?
Thereâs no equivalence here. The attempt to pin Azsharaâs crimes on the Night Elves that fought against her has no logical foundation.
I really hope this is the direction the writers take the charcter. However Golden has a habit of removing any masculinity from male characters she wants to stick around. I get the sense she might turn Thrall into a mommaâs boy with his mom around in Shadowlands.
There is some hope some horde champions will come back. However you need to remember they need to play nice with the new direction of the Horde and by extension the Alliance. Even if some of these characters come back expect some of them to be villains or twisted versions of what you knew.
This will definitely happen however depends if Blizzard can write them in a way that will like the Horde player base like them.
The only issue I have with this, is its the same thing that happen with WOD. Thrall Shows up and basically steals the kill on Garrosh leaving the Alliance without any closure on the whole war with Garrosh. Blizzard need to be very careful how they approach this and make sure they donât forget its a two faction game and need to satisfy both sides of the story.
The Alliance needs some Vengeance both on the Horde in general and Sylvanas. They need to show that the Horde is able to look past it for the sake of peace. Show that the âhordeâ is willing to break the Cycle.
Well, you are right, there is no equivalence, because the NE caused exponentially more damage than the horde ever has and ever could. Even Sargaras sword wound is small potatoes compared to the damage NE caused.
Now intentions wise? Sure, the NE win on this front.
Actual damage wise? Not even a close comparison, the NE permanently screwed up the world. Virtually every single threat that has existed in wow is their fault in some degree.
Also, yes i can pin the crimes on the NE because it was their fanatical devotion to Azshara that enabled this in the first place. The only individuals that actually stood up TO Azshara are in the single digits.
If Azshara made an appearance and said âhey, i summoned the Burning Legion, they are going to cleanse all non-NE from the worldâ the entire NE race would be almost 100% behind her except maybe Farondis.
Well really you would pin those crimes on the blood elves and Nightbourne. They were the ones who supported Azsharaâs plans to summon the demons to Azeroth. The Blood elves were highborne that basically helped cast the summoning spells. the nightborne basically hid when it went bad.
The Night elves represent the commoner who didnât know what was going on. They didnât help with the summoning at all and were infact cut off from the wells power. They fought the demons as soon as they appeared. When it was revealed to them Azshara was responsible they turned on her.
