the forsaken are already mostly portrayed as one dimensional villains. There’s no need to pretend they don’t have civilians. That’s ridiculous
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Weren’t the Forsaken literally made to be an evil faction for the people that’d like to play that?
That doesn’t make tailors and merchants soldiers.
No.
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But your post hoc justification doesn’t hold water. It’s why we have a saying about ends and means.
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No, but a race does need things to keep them relevant; and nations need a way to defend themselves. Defining traits and excelling at things helps a racial fantasy, and you should know that better than anyone considering the NEs would have one of the most absurd ones if they didn’t keep getting punched by Blizz. But, there really is not point in arguing with you about this. Because there is nothing you seem to like about the Forsaken, there is nothing you feel should be kept. They should be sterilized for your convenience, and the convenience of your story.
If the Blight is something you want to do away with; then Necromancy is what they would likely replace it with. If you want that gone too, because its “evil” … then something new within the Shadowlands should be the solution. Its the land of the dead, surely the Forsaken will be allowed a role right? Surely they wont just get a bit part like they did in Northrend? Right?! But, it is very likely that anything they walk away from the land of the dead with is something you’d also qualify as “evil” and “dark” … and thus must also do away with.
Be honest, the Forsaken themselves are the problem. There is nothing beyond vanishing into the shadows of the background forever that could fix them for you.
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Why do they need anything to defend themselves the alliance has nothing like the blight, its called walls and armies, and no where did I say the forsaken has to give up there armies.
Because the Alliance has assets beyond their armies that make up the difference? Are you being deliberately obtuse right now? Also, Humanity has always wanted to reclaim and resettle those northern territories; and often do so at the expense of the Forsaken. BtS is very specific that Humanity still largely fears and hates them for the Scourge; and only very recently has a percentage started hating them for what they’e done as Forsaken. The Forsaken are right to be suspicious of the living, especially humanity, even if they don’t act on that suspicion the right ways. If even Anduin cannot assuage the fear and hatred of his people, they are still dangerous to any undead that doesn’t look like a porcaline statue.
But, again, there is not point in arguing about this. There is nothing worth saving in the Forsaken Racial Fantasy for you, so there is nothing worth keeping. As you said yourself, you’re not a Horde player … and I’m starting to understand why.
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okay, then what is your suggestion? that that i should not hate the horde or what?
i separate players from the faction. droite, i don’t hate you, i hate your faction in the story. see the difference?
Are you honestly blaming me for not liking the horde at all?
No, but what purpose do they have in their craft? What are they earning money for?
No, I’m not blaming you … but I’m not immune to the realities that the satisfaction you expect for your faction will come at the expense of mine. You do understand that right? That with just how much damage the Horde has taken in this expansion, much more could push us over the edge into narrative sterility? Its not that you hate me as a Horde player, but you are subtly implying that I am deserving of whatever the Horde gets.
With one hand you demand satisfaction, and expect it for the Alliance; with the other you freely admit that I am not worthy of the same, solely because of how Blizz uses my faction … and how they use yours.
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Your the one fixed on the blight and necromancy, in vanilla the forsaken didnt have those they where working towards the blight but they didnt have those and they where fine, they could do alot they could focus ont he cult of shadows and them them just as good as void elves, or many they can go the light saken agle and give forsaken paladins, which the playerbase always wanted maybe forsaken build a big bone wall to keep any humans out since your so scared of them (Even tho anduin would never be ok with invading them)
OK … wait? Necromancy is evil, but the literal Void is not? Wut?
Also, Forsaken Angels are Val’kyr … and they can revive the dead. So, they are both a product of necromancy … and can practice necromancy. And the light burns the undead, so any “Paladins” they recieve aren’t going to be light themed. And if they are light themed, well then that just brings a whole swath of story and setting issues.
where have you been, the void isnt evil, its needed for balance, did you not look up the void elf story line or the 1000 year war audio?
and I dont really care about paladin forsaken, I just know the general fan base wants them really badly
And … I finally got it. Your creating arbitrary moral judgement calls on certain elements of the settings and various cultural weapons; and running off that principle. Void is not evil. Necromancy is. Strangling people alive with plants, not evil. Blight is. Using the energy of a god’s vengeance as a weapon to slaughter your way through soldiers, not evil.
The Blight is no more evil than Freezing people to death like Jaina has done repeatedly. Or burning people to death like Rommath would. Or channeling the power of the elements and sending 100k volts through someone like my Shammy here would.
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feels like we already had this conversation…
hum, do you really think that they will become “narrative steriliy”?
you guys got the most focus out of the two factions, cata,mop, wod and bfa. thats 4 expansions vs the apparenty “alliance expansion” (that was neutral btw). but enough of that.
i do believe that the horde deserves to be punished, yes.
but i don’t believe that horde players deserve that.
Does that sounds contradictory? yes because it is.
So, lets say that i don’t think that the horde should be punished of their crimes.
Tell me, droite, what is left for me as an alliance player for abandoning the “justice”?
Nothing. absolutely nothing. there would not be even a point to keep playing.
And let me tell you, the ones who will be left “sterile” will be us.
they are already defanging our characters, so what is even the point of have them? why should i care for leaders that protect more the enemy than my own faction ?
so it seems like we are in the worst situation possible.
Themselves? Same as every other race. Really there’s no need to make them out to be worse than they are. The Alliance is spotless either way.
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To do what? They have no biological needs. Is the future of the Forsaken to turn into a horde of hedonists seeking entertainment for the rest of their eternal lives?
Forsaken are by definition not the same as other races, they’re the single undead race, they came into existence a couple decades ago with the sole purpose of exacting revenge against their creator.
I am just going with what the story tells me, both light and void are needed for life, even the light is evil you know, they destroy life and planets too thats what going on in the story. Blizzard says blight is evil, undeath isnt natural and evil. Are the undead themselves evil? No they arent, they where forced into it. But if rommath and jaina did that its less evil cause thats how blizzard frames it.
Using necromancy like in the glades is fine. Turning the murdered into zombies and siccing them on others is what’s evil.