Its such a missed opportunity. Honestly, I genuinely think the only reason that Blizz did not go with this “Fear of the Alternative, without an Alternative” route is because they wanted to keep the most predictable twist ever … a twist. I mean, if they were just going to have her abandon and betray the Horde/Forsaken anyway … thats the only functional reason I can’t see going that route.
Sylvanas has always been good with misinformation and propaganda. She’s also always had a knack for manufacturing reasons for people to remain dependent on her. Blizz could have done this with the Horde. The idea that even if some agreed with the original intent of the WoT, they despised Teldrassil … but the fear of Alliance reprisal was a tool Sylvie used to keep them in line. At least long enough to get what she wanted out of them.
Anduin’s passivism; his release of Saurfang; all could have played into this idea of taking a chance that by giving the Horde some breathing space … and disproving Sylvie’s propaganda and fearmongering … they’d find an opportunity to turn on her. However, that same gambit by Anduin could have rightfully made immensely interesting internal conflict within the Alliance. With many valid points on what to do, and how to proceed on each side.
And, in the end, the outcome is the same. Saurfang dies a flawed martyr. Gallywix, the war profiteer, is forced to cut his losses with the Horde. Sylvie and Nathanos move on to start the next expansion. The Horde dissolves the Warchief position, forms a council, and gives back many lost Alliance territories willingly. But, its more apparent that the Horde was the victim in Sylvie’s BS too … and thus there would remain at least a small fragment of a path to redemption left.
Could one also look at “arrows in her quiver” and apply it in relationship to her previous life as a general. Her job, then, was to ensure those arrows, those individuals, are used to the fullest extent possible.
Does it make the forsaken - and others in her arsenal - disposable or capable?
(I always appreciate your insight, and I’m not trying to be snarky, I’d dig reading your interpretations here)
In other words, and perhaps from a flip-side: would we want to be arrows for her quiver? Would we see the same end-goal she does and are we willing to be pawns/arrows/tools/conscripts/pick-one’s-viewpoint for that? Maybe that’s the issue with that phrase. That it sounds a bit scourgey and presumptuous.
Oh, absolutely. However, a valuable tool, used correctly, to the best of its potential … is still a tool. Her “Bulwark” was no less of a tool than her “Arrows” were. Its just that their purpose was very different, and maintaining and growing the strength of the Bulwark was the best way to use it. She could pass it off as her doing it for the betterment of the Forsaken, without even necessarily even being wrong … but her core intent was to bolster the effectiveness of her tool.
Except now we know that Genn was probably right and Sylvanas probably did leave the Alliance for dead at the Broken Shore intentionally because of Danuser’s answer at the Blizzcon Q&A Panel.
I’m gunna get esoteric here and I hope I don’t dive too deeply into the quirky.
I wonder if this grates on one’s mind because of cultural differences. It makes her and her people - those arrows - seem more of a collective (a singular weapon) and less a collection of individuals. (Which this appeared to be challenged [and maybe put down?] during Before the Storm and the Desolate Council).
From my perspective, that definitely appears to be at odds with a more “the individual is queen/king” mentality. And this creates tension because in-game I think most factions are more of the “help the individual, and the group is better,” vs the more “group is prime” philosophy.
Perhaps this is a nod to the holdover from when they (forsaken Sylvanas) were parts of the scourge?
I wanna back up to this point for a bit. I assume you mean the reveal of Sylvanas showing off how bad she could be, but I still think a lot of the stuff written was in poor taste. And it still has the problem of the horde player being dragged along for the ride.
Like, I assume you can still imagine that the character you play is heroic and a good person. I can’t do that anymore for my own, thanks to this expansion.
I mean the great denouement that reveals what she was trying to do, and why she did what she did. (Although, I don’t think we’ve still got that for even Sargeras, since we are still a bit head-scratchy on what will happen with Azeroth.)
And i empathize with you, Sarm. I was playing horde most of Legion and then BFA hit and I felt very lost. Thus me mentioning that horde was used as a backdrop for her character (Sylvanas). I can see some light at the end of the tunnel, all in hindsight now with the rebel horde story being born over patches, but yeah, it felt dark
Edit to add: to be sure, I fully acknowledge that I’m able to explore these things about Sylvanas without feeling “intertwined” with them because of the faction I played mostly through BFA. The fact that I get to sit back, puff a pipe and get dissertative about this or that without having to have experienced the frustration the horde Players have, is not lost on me - at least I hope not. I try I convey that…”narrative privilege” I’ve been exposed to, well.
You’re fine. I think this expansion’s left me so embittered that I’ve started assuming the worst out of posts, but I don’t think anything you’ve written is actually bad. I’m sorry for assuming that about you, whether it came off that way or not.
Yes it is. If you wonder why people tag you as “red Alliance”, it’s stuff like this.
No offense, but that perspective is much easier to take as the conflict’s protagonist, and not the horde players watching their faction die a slow death. What i think you maybe don’t grasp is how blizzard didn’t even try to sell this story to the horde.
To be fair, Fairlight earlier said that BFA’s story drove her out of playing horde altogether and into the alliance to play through it from that perspective.
You’re golden, Sarm. I can empathize with how some nobody starts spouting off what can easily be interpreted as academic drivel when you (read: you and your character) had to deal with it within your chosen mode of recreation.
As if I’ve uncovered some really cool nugget of wisdom, and spread it thinking I’ve uncovered “epiphany” itself, and you’re here simply nodding and silently saying: yep, enjoy that, I’ll get to go back to my lopsided story.
Rambling, but, you’re good. I hope to stay aware of how primarily-horde players feel about this expansion and not try to shove my “findings” in their face.
