No. It will be every single member of the council except for Baine and Talanji.
Oof. Flagged for speaking the truth.
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I am confident that history will vindicate me.
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I think they also overestimated how popular he was with the Alliance. Alliance players might have had some respect for him as an opponent, but they absolutely didn’t want to work with him as an ally. Even if he’d officially left the Horde by then.
The way I remember it, reactions to Garrosh were very mixed. There were some who hated him, sure, and others who were excited because he was aggressive, and still others who actually bought Blizzard’s promise that we’d get to see him mature into the role of warchief.
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OMG, you’re so right.
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Who even flagged this post and why
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I have a guess, but I’ll keep it to myself because I think discussing mod actions is itself actionable or some such.
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Great more horde clown fiesta.
i just hope that they don’t forget the alliance exist because i am so tired of being a side character in their story.
i don’t know i think that now more than ever i am seeing this sort of division, SPECIALLY with the nelfs fanatics/rest of the alliance.
Or the keep killing/peace guys.
i think that is just going to keep escalating from now on.
Well they forgot about the Night Elves and I don’t think they remember that the Worgen exist either, they should be after Sylvanas and the Horde too.
To be fair we don’t know what the book is going to contain
but i am more than worried that alliance only got mentioned in like 2 lines.
Because if is going to be more horde “finding themselves” for the 50th time i will go rabid.
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Well the summary didn’t look promising at all. If major characters like Tyrande or Genn were in the book, they would’ve been mentioned there.
It definitely will be about that. The Horde, Sylvanas and maybe a little bit about Anduin.
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And the award for most random topic in a forum goes too Yvenathilm.
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Do any Alliance players actually oppose the idea of the nelfs getting their revenge, though? I’m not seeing that idea here.
I don’t believe so, but that’s because the story has shown them to be no consequences for this.
What I had been saying before was that, if Blizzard treated the Alliance story as it has been treating the Horde story, the Nelves would be able to get revenge… on a small scale, at the cost of, say, allowing all of Arathi to fall to the Horde again and this time in firm enough control to menace the Wetlands and even harass Ironforge with its Inter-Continental Ballistic Catapults, leading to the Dwarves, Gnomes, and Draenei (just because) openly refusing to support such an effort and demanding Anduin stop funding and supporting the foolhardy revenge effort. Meanwhile the Worgen and Night Elves would threaten to withdraw from the Alliance entirely if not supported.
I made that scenario up in about five minutes, but the point is that Blizzard hasn’t tried to drive the hard wedges into the Alliance playerbase like it has with the Horde’s.
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Thank goodness you didn’t have that in “Before the Storm” and the Illidan book that was for the Legion.
BtS was mostly about Anduin and Illidan was nelf content.
This book will partly tell a story about new Darkspear shaman- Zekhan and Talanji.
Darkspears had a short end of a stick for a long time, and things got really upsetting in Legion, I don’t think I have to say why.
And Talanji’s stance was often discussed, she needed to have some proper closure in this trainwreck of expansion.
I mean it’s fine if you’re not interested, I am not interested in Anduin, Turalyon, Jaina, Wrathion and many others.
But I don’t think that throwing a bone to troll fans is an artrocity.
If you’re splitting Alliance to subfactions - Gilneans, Nelves, - then try to give the same courtesy to the Horde and look at them as a collection of shafted subfactions.
Truth is we don’t know how it will turn out, it might be mediocre story, it might be something good. It might give nice or underwhelming plot.
For me who honestly never saw it coming, someone who was expecting Bolvar oriented book, someone who was sure that Vol’Jin focused book was first and last book ever which was taking trolls into consideration - it is a big deal.
I was so used to getting sidelined and ignored that I initially thought someone is showing a meme/ joke montage. It took me a moment to acknowledge that this book will cover Zekhan, Talanji and Bwonsamdi - and it is not a prank.
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i would agree that BtS was mostly anduin, while i don’t really care about him it is far better to have him in rather than horde.
But illidan nelf content? like what?
yeah because voljin and his rebellion didn’t existed and voljin’t didn’t had a book before…
or this expansion wasn’t all about trolls… or horde in general,nope, nope.
i would agree that talanji deserved a little more of attention this expansion.
Fine.
But here is my problem.
The sinopsis talks about like what is important is the horde “FiNdinG THemSeLvEs” and “WhAT MaDE ThE HoRdE STRoNg” Again, just, enough of the clown, go to hell, horde.
and that is totally fair, it is why we have different factions, right?.
is not wrong for me not wanting to see any of it. the same way you don’t for any of the characters you don’t are interested about.
So, i think that you can understand that.
i didn’t have “the same courtesy” during this expansion at all when it was all about the dumb horde making something stupid, again, not learning anything, again and once again being war criminals who escapes without consequences, so i think that i had enough of the stupid horde and i would rather see them all killed.
so, it is wrong for me not wanting any of it, considering that i am part of half of the playerbase?.
i think not, the same way you don’t, or horde players for our side.
so forgive me when i say that i don’t want to see any of it.
Because i have seen the same from the other side, if people aren’t willing to have alliance story at all, so why should i be willing to have horde story?.
But, hey, i truly hope that i am wrong and is actually 50/50
So we both can enjoy our faction’s story.
is not fun being a side character, right?.
i think that trolls got far more attention than any other race minus the nelfs, probably.
i am seeing people who is entirely opposed to anduin and anyone who supports him and his peace.
Leading of course, to a lot of insults.
Something, like i said that is only increasing and increasing in time.
mostly because the nelfs didn’t had that revenge in the first place.
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so if you “don’t really care” for some of Alliance content then it “doesn’t really count”? I don’t follow you. Then what about Wolfheart, what about stormrage, “Tides of War”?
And last time I checked Illidan is important night elf character, he might not be connected to nelf society anymore but he is big lore figure and people on forums for years wanted to give him justice (I personally disagreed with them).
I did Mention it below, but MoP was the only time Darkspears had any bigger revelancy. I mean you could argue that pre-Cata event for reclamation of Echo Isles was big thing too, but what they got in the end was catch up with other races to have a starting zone as both trolls and gnomes were the only races that didn’t even have that.
You talk as there was no Kul’Tiras - distinguish Alliance questing experience, Nazjatar- a big unduersea Zone which connects a bit with nelves again, and old gods stuff.
Zandalari became faster irrevelant than Jaina and her tearful cinematics.
Yes, BfA provided some good troll stuff, heck we even recevied Blessing with having fully rendered troll character for cinematics.
But that was after expansion in which Horde was close to be completely irrevelant besides Stormheim and belf presence in Suramar. Legion was mostly about class halls, nelves, demons, and big Alliance related (or alliance race related) names.
Darkspears fans were left without any update or any compensation ( like fancy mount, armor or tusk ornament they didn’t even get a monument/ honoring place ) for losing the only established big lore character they had even mocked by devs for that “Vol’Jin is dead, what update do you need?” or Mophead laughing at his death - I am not a twitter user but I had to comment on that and I responded to it “and who is responsible for that?”. But I’m being carried away. It feels like their return with Zekhan is some sort of response to Vol’Jin outrage.
I guess you missed the memo that Horde players aren’t happy about it either. Beggars can’t be choosers. But we don’t know how they will actually address it and how much spotlight it will take in book overall. I personally think that Alliance should’ve experience “at crossroads” treatment as I find it hard to believe that everyone is yes-man to Anduin’s peacemongreling politics.
Ofc, but in this specific place you need to realize what made them use this set up for a book and why they chose it over Genn, Tyranda etc.
Bwonsamdi is one of the death heralds in Shadowlands, he is the only one that worked around the broken machine which was responsible for soul flow.
And trolls have strong ties to him via religion they have. Horde always had stronger connection with death theme than Alliance who was more light oriented. And they’re trying to give closure to Zandalari who were cut off from 2 last patches in terms of their stance on newest events. So they’re adressing few things at one go.
I agree that Horde did awful things that no Horde player actually asked for, a LOT of people on Horde side were extremely demoralized because of it. But that still doesn’t make them mass mob. There were still sub factions that were made dirty. Both Alliance and Horde are being mistreated - but in different way as in Alliance is losing x and Horde is losing y.
And “having them all killed” - isn’t that very extreme?
I am not saying I don’t want to see Alliance story at all, quite the contrary. I really like some sub-factions of Alliance, like Dark Irons, Worgen, gnomes. I think it’s a travesty that they don’t have bigger role and actual agency and they’re all acting like a sheep doing what mr Holybones asked. I want for them to grow a spine, I want proper morally grey story. But I’m not a developer. And a lot of people do have alts on both factions and are interested in various aspects of both. Not everyone is as orthodox as you are.
Still nobody is asking you to read this book, that is different media outside of game. You can read the book about Shaw and Flynn that will come out alongside. Shadowlands expansion will be the most neutral content and there will be covenants instead of H/A.
As loot fodder? Yeah there has to be “troll raid/dungeon” but that’s not a development/ progress for them. You have no idea how much it upsets the troll fans to be forced by narrative to attack them when in majority (Not all, they did some wrongs too) of cases troll stance is relatable and understandable. And what is more upsetting is that they’re denied their pathos and martyrology.
BfA was the first big attempt to humanize them, show them that they’re not just villians to be raided, that they’re nation like any other, that they have a rich culture, that they have a families, that they have a kids, that they can be brave and noble, but in the very same expansion we raid our own hub and people that were meant to join, and the long awaited big name is killed within 1 patch.
Blizzard is quite sadistic to trolls for some reason.
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Sure, but I’m not seeing a lot of pushback from players on the Anduin side. And most of the insults are directed against Anduin himself, and he’s an NPC.
That’s what I’m talking about. As far as I can see, pretty much all Alliance posters agree that nelves deserve to get more revenge than has been shown in the game so far. The only disagreement is about whether that would be good for the larger story as a whole.
Etheldald has been getting more and more extreme in his views over the course of this expansion. And Horde players have told him (repeatedly) that we’re not happy.
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no, i didn’t said that, i said that it would be better than horde.
important nelf character… that goes neutral… he is not alliance. he is neutral.
and gilneans have been sidelined as well so… 
Alright lets say that the horde was irrelevant for 1 expansion.
After they got 3 expansions in a row of HoRdE FinDing ThemSelves
That right there is my problem, if you think that 1 was bad, oh boy.
imagine 3.
hell in this one as well everyone else was a side character to the saurfang/sylvanas fiasco.
after years of dealing with horde atrocities i think that it would be better for everyone to be like that, at least we all could preserve our dignity.
oh believe me that not only is about the NPCS.
Well the idea of ending the war was not exactly popular. i think blizzard will play with that in the future. but i have some that said that contining the war is pointless.
i know horde players aren’t happy but is not like horde players care about ally players either. that is what i feel. and that is why i increadsily became more opposed to the horde and the players that defend it.
Of course, is not that i hate horde players, only the faction, but if people like that faction then we will have entirely opposed ideas. i think is normal.
Okay allow me to clarify, like i said, i am not really oppossed to the idea that talanji deserved a little more of closure this expansion like jaina had (if she is her counterpart).
But my problem is not talanji, my problem is the horde.
What has me worried is that the entire book is just about that while alliance, once again barely has any develop.
i would rather be wrong and end up like a clown that end up being right and be left even more angrier.
Because sadly, history is on my side.
So hopefully, the only thing that i want is 50/50. i believe that this is how everything should be consdering that we give them money, i am not paying to see the horde story, blizzard made sure of that.
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Illidan was never Alliance character. He was night elf character. I never claimed that he was Alliance, just important lore figure to the night elves, and he received a book which was in a way introduction to Legion expansion. It made sense for a set up.
Also Alliance leaders which were for some time neutral apparently don’t count, but to this day you can hear complains over Thrall back in Cataclysm. People really need to make their mind up on when we can claim that one character is neutral through and through, and which character is part of faction but for story convenience happens to be neutral to both factions (Turalyon and Alleria).
I never denied it, and you have my Sympathy. They had some extras in Broken Isles with Stormheim, Valsharah, being in Dalaran hub hosts, and few extra small bits a’la minor NPCs such as Celestine of the Harvest, who while wasn’t followe in Druid class hall, was more active via quests than Zen’Tabra and Hamuul Runetotem imo.
Keep in mind I don’t want to compare stuff in a matter of who had 1inch of stuff more. It’s still a little . Genn was also featured in Cinematic and was MVP for Alliance in BfA imo, Worgen also received heritage armor and quests ( I agree that quality leaves a lot to be desired) so it’s not like they’re totally neglected, in this expansion Darkspears had a role in Nazmir - which is imo comparable to Stormheim, Rokhan was slightly more fleshed out in BfA which is imo also comparable with Legion cameo with the difference that Genn received fancy new model and appeared in cinematic, Rokhan was pushed out in the most crucial for him to appear cinematic by Nathanos (BoD one). They also had special Vol’Jin quest line which was into to Shadowlands, and cameos via Warfronts and invasions. Could there be more stuff for Darkspears since BfA was heavily focusing on Zandalari? Deffinietly. But they still got some small tidbits which thirsty for any update players would gratefully accept with open arms.
Alliance neglected 3 times in row? Where?
If you use WoD because orclords of Draenor then it’s not exactly true. The biggest star of this expansion was Khadgar, Alliance recevied a heavy dose of the lore for Draenei, (sure it doesn’t advance MU Draenei by tiny bit, but it still explores their lore in interesting way), and you get to kill all those iconic orcs as you’d wish for.
Let’s hypothetically reverse this “Alternative Universe” and let’s have it about Vile human kingdoms on expanse where we have to unite to stop them. Would it be “Alliance favorite” expansion or not? And expansion ends where we successfully break most of them besides let’s say Alterac, and later - after having a short trip back in time to recruit them we learn that Amani wiped them out almost completely and they had to port to Azeroth as they were pretty much done there.
I think it would be upsetting.
Another expansion I assume you were talking about was MoP which up to patch 5.2 had equal attention distribution, I agree that 5.3 could have more satisfying content for Alliance, but in 5.4 you do raid Horde capital, sure you don’t dismantle the faction, but in reverse if Horde was to raid Stormwind but didn’t dismantle the Alliance - would you feel alright about it or not?
So I wouldn’t say that entire MoP was focusing on Horde, but half of it. And I wouldn’t mind the climax if they didn’t go exact same path in BfA with much worse quality and even stupider climax. It also shown that all that Darkspear Revolution turned out to be pointless, the cycle repeated itself few years later. Not decades, few years. It’s incredibly demoralizing.
And for Cataclysm (because i assume it was the one you were referencing) - I really get that Alliance was upset over losing the zones and I guess they’re not satisfied with explanation that it was to make things equal between Horde and Alliance leveling experience. Cataclysm had a lot of issues, and the zones were aging much worse than vanilla ones. Not to mention the hit and miss updates and pop culture references used in overwhelmingly big number. But I don’t think that this expansion was all about Horde, in the end Alliance did receive a huge chunk of new Lore, Malfurion was Thrall equivalent of being big champion, Gilneas was lost, but so was Kezan - at least you can still visit that zone, while if I’d like to visit goblin Islands I don’t have such an option at all.
Do you have Horde alt by any chance?
I agree it was pretty bad, but so was Jaina flip flopping all the time. BfA completely ruined Saurfang and I wish he was ignored instead. Sometimes massive spotlight can do more harm than being flat out ignored.
Horde artrocities? What about Alliance artrocities? You can obviously feel that Alliance are the good guys and Horde bad because this is how Horde is shown in Alliance questing experience. But when I was leveling through Kul’Tiras I learned that humans successfully genocided the natives that used to live there before humans. And the justification was that they were agressive and didn’t want to live with outsiders. The narrative doesn’t portray Kul’Tirans as the bad guys, no, they’re a heroes. But they did settled on occupied territory, expanded upon it, pissed off natives, and as a response to agression they decided to completely wipe them out.
What about poor Frostmane - which were in the Dwarf leveling zone? Those quests makes me sick to my stomack - for a beginner quests they order you to kill troll children and it was going on for many years - since vanilla. Dwarves also expanded on troll territory, stole their land and posession (like one quest asks you to steal their herbs for their brew ingredient).
There are many more examples. I never denied that Horde did lots of bad things, but what is even more alarming is that Alliance players (at least majority that posts on forums to my experience) never realise that they did exact same thing as Horde did in order to sieze control over the territories they currently have.
Even burning people amass like nelves were. That is what happened to Amani.
So if you’re so disgusted with Horde, why don’t you feel as much repulsed with Alliance? And yet you’re so personally invested, and claim the moral superiority of the faction you’re playing on.
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