I would love to see Demo get more demons in general. Though I do think Implosion should actually become a passive ability where the last shot of the imps causes them to surge with energy and become the last shot and deal aoe on hit.
3 Likes
I accept the validity of your statement - and your reasoning - but it feels like more of “Why Blizzard doesn’t want Warlocks.” Literally, a spell named after one of the consistent expansion-wide bad guys.
And that still doesn’t excuse the fact that we have “Vile Taint.” Seriously. Nobody at Blizzard thought “Hmmm, you know, this sounds a little bit wrong.”
And we gave “Death Coil,” to Death Knights in exchange for “Mortal Coil,” gave gained “Rot and Decay” as a leftover from “Death and Decay,” gave “Metamorphosis” to Demon Hunters, and got a dad joke in “Imp-losion.”
/Disband the class Blizzard, you know you want to just make Warlocks bad guys and get rid of the player choice.
/Or rename us Bolt Lords to go along with Shadow Bolt, Deathbolt, Demonbolt, Chaos Bolt, Bolt Cutters, Chevy Bolt, Bolt Lock, Slide Bolt, Usain Bolt, and of course Michael Bolton. But not Lightning Bolt. Never lightning bolt.
2 Likes
No.
Please stop.
3 Likes
Yeah utility should never be spec specific.
Kalamazi dropped an Affliction specific video, go check it out.
EDIT: JK video is about live
Oh trust me, i know. I have mained my warlock as demo since 04, raiding up to a quarter of naxx before BC. I have suffered all the slights. Warlocks just really dont seem to have a focus… We pull from so many inspirations… is the demon commander of demonology just an imp mother? What will finally be an affliction filler spell?
I would also argue that demonhunter (illidan rather) gained his power after using the skull of guldan, a warlock. WE have the power. Also I would be fine with implosion if it was like the hearthstone incarnation (my favorite spell in that game) that did damage and summoned more imps. It makes as much sense as DK getting DnD when it was a lich spell.
It really feels like anytime they give us things or new lore its just suddenly made up to appease us and not really part of the class. Except the Scepter of Sargaras and Ulthalesh. Those were the coolest of all artifacts.
4 Likes
Hey yall I wrote this in another thread and in general more and more threads are appearing supporting of the “demon tame system” idea.
This week I’m going to go through all the Demon families and Aberration families and try to divide them among the “demon pet slots” according to their in-game usual behavior or lore (e.g. Felhunters are more bestial, so “animal based demons”, Voidwalker are aberrations, so void-based monsters, Succubus are well, succubi, so satyrs).
Once I have it all typed up I’ll post the table here just for the fun of it while we wait for meaningful changes, should they come lmao
Edit:
Update on this front:
Shadowlands is indeed being released Q4 which is means October, November, or December.
So I’m guessing late October prepatch and early November release is correct.
Ugh, my mind. lol
Edit 2: WoWhead warlock update
Chaotic Effigy Breaking an Ashen Phylactery increases the damage of your next by
5%20%. This effect stacks up to 100 times.
3 Likes
Honestly I agree with most of this. For sure Shadow-burn should be a baseline execute, when it was it felt great to use. Secondly i’m going to critique a lot of the talents. Going by row.
lvl 15 : Flashover should be baseline. ( why take out what was baseline? feels stupid and contrived). Soul-fire could use a significant buff, making it worth taking.
Lvl 25 : Shadow-burn as i stated before needs to be baseline, it cant compete with the other choices in the row. Take it back to its Pre-Legion form. The spec itself feels abit incomplete without the execute. (Heck, make it baseline for locks in general, wouldn’t hurt)
Lvl 35 : Fire and Brimstone baseline. In its place bring back “Charred Remains” which made all of your ST spells (when you toggled F&B ) to have a cleave component. It would work well due to this row being the “cleave/ AoE” row. It brought a lot of flavor to Destro back in WoD. Again F&B baseline and have this talent modify it.
— Inferno needs to be reworked or removed, its never taken.
Lvl 40 : Tongue tied, not bad in concept but ? This is a pve talent? Since when do we need a healing reduction in pve? Makes no sense in a pve tree. Pvp Talent or bust.
— Darkfury…ehh kinda useless tbh. Either restore it to its old version or remove this talent.
Lvl 45 : — Grimoire of Supremecy, a great talent, pretty much mandatory at this point. It makes your infernal feel like an actual CD, interacts well with CB. Its effect should be baked in with Infernal, making it baseline. In its place I would suggest putting either the Legion artifact “minfernals” in its place for more flavor or a nerfed Vison of Perfection proc.
—Grimoire of Sacrifice. It definitely needs a buff in its damage as well as its damage being constant, not a proc/RNG. Another note is to give you the chosen demons ability when its sacrificed. Who in their right mind is going to take a talent that gives them an RNG chance of doing a little more damage as well as losing their utility from their pet? Its not good in its current iteration.
Lvl 50 : — Channel Demon-fire, what else can i say about this other than its damage is abit weak and the animation even weaker. Good synergy with Cataclysm but clunky to set up otherwise. Needs a damage buff or reworked to be usable with only one immolation up and hitting all enemies around the immolated target, instead of having to dot up 10+ targets to make this talent work its magic in an impactful way.
— Soul Conduit, either needs buffed, reworked or removed its essentially a dead talent. It doesn’t pull nearly the numbers for it to be competitive with the other 2 in any situation in its current iteration.
— Dark Soul : Instability, honestly a great ability, used to be baseline (feels bad). This talent should again be baseline along with the other Dark Souls. Its okay to have more than 1 CD for a spec. This should be baseline and be the ST CD for Destro, while the infernal is the AoE CD. To really flesh out the feeling of being a real Force of Destruction. Id also say the same for the other specs as well, making their demon an AoE CD and the Dark Soul a ST CD. Just for more flavor and choice. Lets even go a step further and say make this final talent row affect Dark Soul in 3 different ways. Modifying its usage, letting the player decide how that CD makes an impact. It could even be letting the players use the other Dark Soul Incarnations from the other 2 specs. Almost like the affinity talents for the druids.
6 Likes
I think that doom is in a bad shape unless we get hand of doom in talents to replace its current talent i dont think people will use the talent.
I get why they are as dding doom and corruption back to demo. I think the issue will b maintenance on the two while trying to get soul shards.
With hand of doom and adding when doom or corruption deals damage or something they generate a soul shard.
I think night fall could come back as a talent though in the demo tree since we have corruption.
1 Like
What if we move Tongue Tied to the pvp talents and then fill the spot with Demonic Breath (a frontal cone slow).
2 Likes
I think I am the only lock that still uses doom, but if it gets a cast time in SL (which I understand is happening) I will have to drop it. Its value is in instant on move target tagging/defacto pet attack command. Cast time kills all that.
Hey yall removed the Azerite Trait shortlist suggestions since there’s too many takes if I take into account DPS simcraft, PVE vs PVP, and Quality of Life ideals.
Started the process of rewriting everything in general. Will prolly do it Saturday.
Kinda wanna get a google doc going but that’d be a flaming hot mess lmao
edit: also if yall could respond to this just for data purposes:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSe0cRbNEDNHvuSYMqTDuro_UcFCDyqCoVWyXTJME1d8qEYcGA/viewform
3 Likes
Coming from the preach interview, the thing to take away is that we shouldn’t expect any major updates until we get the full package, eg soulbinds legendaries. I wouldn’t expect any major update for another 2 months.
2 Likes
I agree with everything you wrote. And your the coolest Vulpera around.
2 Likes
It would be pretty cool if legendary traits gave demo access to stronger demons. But that would still require them to replace the talents tied to felguard. At this point I wish they would do just that.
1 Like
First, request for sticky! As there is so much useful and well articulated feedback in this thread. I share many of the concerns, and will not repeat it all. Seeing as how well put it already is. I would like to add my voice though.
My area of biggest concern, after review proposed changes, is Demon summoning cast time. From my outside perspective it makes no sense to increase this to 6s cast time. Demons are a critical and defining part of our class. We depend on them for dps, utility… IMO placing a 6s cast time on them is equivalent to placing a 6s cast time on Druid shape shift forms. Only it’s even worse for us, as Druids don’t lose their form during a fight like we can lose a demon. I could go on, but I’ll just say that I thought all of these issues would have been obvious. Please revert it.
Next is curses. Why bring these back? Is debuffing going to be a thing again? IMO they don’t do anything interesting, and so they do not add anything of value to the game play experience. I’m just really scratching my head on this one.
Finally, semi related to the previous, can Warlocks get Hellfire back base line for all specs. I’ve felt Warlock aoe on the whole has felt awkward or overly complicated for some time. Hellfire would greatly help with this. I’ve always thought it was a fun ability, and very iconic (?) to the Warlock class.
To summarize, Demon cast time increase is a bad idea. Curses are blah. Return Hellfire please.
…I think it was called Hellfire. The one that was a toggle. You turned it on and you took damage, but everything around you also took damage. Anyway, just my opinions/two copper.
5 Likes
How would you want it to fit in the current aoe rotation? I don’t think adding set and forget vanilla styled hellfire back would good for any of the specs. If there was some interactivity i could see it working for demo and maybe destro but i struggle to see it being anything but clunky for shadowlands affliction.
1 Like
Was spitballing ideas with a friend yesterday over what to do with Tongue Tied, and this came up as an idea:
Agonizing Curses
Your Agony also applies your most recently cast curse
Thoughts? Monks and Demon Hunters apply their effects super easily, and giving Aff some more utility could help nudge it into some more groups without just pumping up damage mindlessly.
Curses are interesting, but as single target abilities they just don’t really mesh with a lot of content that we have nowadays.
1 Like
A content creator I just discovered “Tiqqle” on YouTube, is amazing, he main Alts warlock and pretty much agrees on everything we have mentioned, he’s on the alpha…
Hits the nail perfectly, he isn’t about how flashy the class Is, and actually breaks down the class how Destro is only good in a 3 min cooldown and how Demo currently is.
2 Likes
I think it would fit way better, then tab dot dot dot, tab dot dot dot, tab dot dot dot… And Seed of Corruption is almost completely useless (I’d be glad to see it pruned). When there are enough mobs for it to be worth while to cast they die before I can even get a cast off. And then I still have to load up the mob with dots so it’ll burst before every thing else dies, defeating the purpose in the first place.
Hellfire requires you to position your character, and monitor your health bar (because if you forget it it will kill you). It would dovetail in quite nicely between casts.
As it is, I’m looking at proposed class changes and considering the design of encounters Blizzard has been using for the past few expansions. It really has me trying to decide between switching back to mage, or going melee.
The issues you’re having with Seed are because you’re level 53. It pops almost instantly at 120, and is worth casting at like 3 targets.
Hellfire is boring, and doesn’t fit at all with Aff’s toolkit. “Monitor your health” just means “hope the healer heals you, otherwise your damage is gimped.” Maybe Demo or Destro could get some form of Hellfire, but definitely not Aff.
1 Like