Shadowlands Alpha Voices

See my problem is that blizz always sets impossible goals for Night Elves. In the War of Thorns, we were supposed to stop the Horde from reaching Teldrassil - we failed. Then during the burning they gave us an impossible number of civilians to save which is also a massive defeat seeing all of those civilians die that you can’t all save in time.
Then in 8.1, our quest objective was to stop Nathanos from raising the Night Elves - which we also failed even with Malfurion and Tyrande.
Later in the war campaign, Shandris and others kept talking about getting justice for Teldrassil up until 8.2.5 where she admitted that we should just give up on that since it won’t happen and we can’t make it happen.

I don’t see how that “Save Tyrande” thing won’t just be another failure for the PC.

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Have to agree with this. “Save Tyrande” is a new objective to basically crap on the Night Warrior concept.
The NW was supposed to be a heroic figure who took back her lands, crushed the invaders and achieved victory at the risk of the ritual being dangerous and liable to kill the person.

Now it’s changed to this curse that will eventually kill the person despite overcoming the risk of the ritual, and for Tyrande herself it isn’t really a power-up considering all we’ve seen her capable of, in both novels and the games. They are really moving the goalposts each time for night elf tragedy/survival and it’s getting tiring and annoying. It’s no longer about victory and now it’s about survival, once again.
Defeating Sylvanas should be their priority, not overcoming a worthless curse.

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In the alliance version too, you see clearly a moon fallen from the sky

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UnReLiaBLE NarraTion

Level 30-36 farmers killed a greater Valkyr with farming tools. If killing a Greater Valkyr is really a “big deal,” its not apparent outside of developer hype talk.

Its not just power creep, but blizzards lack of consistency and inability to tell a story without Twitter or dev clarifications afterward.

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Are we also forgetting that she empowered an entire army that won Darkshore back from the Horde (Her original goal) and blocked out the Moon?

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Well well, what a surprise. Hordeposters are so used to steamrolling the Alliance that they can’t even grasp the concept of why night elf fans feel weak, even when it’s all laid out in front of them.

Oh and also I have to mention this…

Post of the month right here. Absolutely brilliant.

Just be careful. You may rouse Carma’s posse of rabid followers to mass report you for that quip.

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It’s not that they can’t grasp the concept. Its that they directly benefit from the concept and have been since Cataclysm when Kaldorei were put on the chopping block to sate their whining about questing imbalance. They’ve been benefiting off of it for a decade and they don’t want the gravy train to slow down.

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oh god, I had only played through this once and I forgot how pathetic this was.

Goddess-empowered tyrande can’t fight nathanos and his valkyr face-to-face. He “binds” her and for a moment even seems to have Tyrande at his mercy.

Tyrande has to “escape” and hide in a fog of darkness until her hubby comes to save her. This is just sad.

(For now I’m not factoring in the alliance and horde PCs since they effectively cancel each other out.)

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And THAT was the Night Elves’ revenge and justice for Teldrassil. Just think about it

I played through it multiple times on multiple characters and I still can’t make any sense out of it.

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I agree, it sucks to never win anything :c Here’s hoping that it changes? <3

Doesn’t look like Shadowlands has a lot of potential for a Night Elf victory so maybe the expansion after - but fingers crossed.

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The whole concept of the Night Warrior was stupid to begin with. The NEs shouldn’t have needed some cheesy power up to kick some butt on Darkshore and even if they had to go for a ‘forbidden ritual’ they could have done something far more dramatic like say having some huge moon death laser that wipes out a big horde fort in the area and left a huge crater. In the end what it was was still woefully underwhelming.

All that said, the idea that a forbidden ritual should have no drawbacks is just as stupid. The fact the ‘drawbacks’ and ‘flaws’ the Alliance has to deal with for walking on the dark side at all or getting involved with dubious or forbidden rituals and powers are practically little more than cosmetic just to give ‘edge’ to groups like the Void elves are a complete joke and undermine any narrative value they might have. Can you name one Void Elf which has actually gone mad from the Void Whispers? The Locus Walker lost heaps of students to the whispers but apparently literally everyone Alleria trains is completely immune to their influence. Might as well neuter the Void as a threat completely since anyone can resist their influence with the right training.

Anyway, I really doubt Tyrande will die. I suspect they will save her, either by removing the power from her or defusing it amongst others and weakening its influence.

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Yes? And Godfrey killed Sylvanas with a single shot.

Said farmers were a callback to WC3 and the Alliance “Militia” trait, and the reality is you are just reinforcing my point. There is not some super crazy gap between players and everyone else.

We are the best at what we do (sometimes not even that), but it’s not an insurmountable barrier

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Your point is only a part of the problem. The overall issue is just bad writing.

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You can be disappointed in presentation, but I think it is a bit dubious to argue that the problem is that the Night Elves don’t win hard enough, because this was content that was intended for both sides. So even though the Night Elves were always going to win, Blizzard wanted it to seem like there was a point for Horde players to have to play through it.

Tyrande brings a perpetual nightfall onto Darkshore and the Night Elves, more or less alone, kick the Horde out of the zone. Nathanos gets a bunch of power-ups, does the villain schtick, and has to flee like a dog.

Keep in mind, again, that this content is supposed to be for both factions. From a Horde player perspective, you are once again forced to be henchman to a stereotypical villain, you are basically powerless (you get to help fight Tyrande and you may as well be fighting a mountain as your attacks are completely ineffectual), and your “win”? Raising two night elf wardens, which is A) evil, B) important because why?, C) actually wrecks the story going forward because it turns the entire warfront into a Night Elf grudge match.

The basic flaw was making warfronts that only one side had a strong stake in. That meant that, emotionally, one side was over invested and the other underinvested. The attempts to make the Horde seem like they had a purpose come off as fake (why am I raising Night Elves and blighting nature, again? I’m a paladin), while trying to make the battle seem close makes the Alliance feel like they aren’t getting enough of a win.

Stromgarde has the same flaw, but to a lesser extent. I challenge you to find one Horde player who was excited to be battling for generic base#63 in a zone that had traditional ties to the Alliance and almost none to the Horde (except Hammerfall, which was oddly left out of the struggle).

Edit: Thus, when Blizzard announced that the Alliance collectively won both warfronts, there was basically a collective roll of the eyes from players. It was pretty obvious from day one that the Alliance was going to win both warfronts. Gee, I wonder which Blizzard is more invested in? Rebuilt Stromgarde or the Horde base put together at the last minute from generic assets? Darkshore as a Night Elf zone, or a blighted wasteland with no story function?

This was the problem with the entire BfA narrative: unclear stakes for one side (literally; Blizzard waited until the end to reveal that Horde players were all chumps who didn’t understand the evil plan they were fighting for) and impossible win conditions for the other (Alliance was never going to get to defeat the Horde). In other words, the exact same mistake that Blizzard made with the last faction war.

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It is fair, especially if they had planned the jailor being involved in this particular quest from the word go.

They clearly bungled the questchain’s story from the word go. You tell this from the initial version put on the PTR. There was no Val’kyr buff originally, that got added in from the backlash the that resulted from the original release.

If they had planned for the jailor being involved in this specific questchain, when they designed this specific questchain then they should have made it clear that something was wrong from the perspectives of Tyrande and Malfurion on the Alliance side at least.

You can’t say they were sacrificing the quality of this questchain to protect a spoiler when the Vol’jin questchain released in the same patch clearly reveals something is meddling in the affairs of Azeroth. (The Vol’jin quest is Horde only so Alliance players have to see it from datamining or not at all).

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(Observation): The War of Thorns was content meant for both sides. I think the Night Elves deserved to win, ‘hard enough,’ in Darkshore as the Horde did in the War of Thorns.

(Commentary): By that I do mean start us out in Ashenvale, wiping out the Horde presence utterly, and then move to Darkshore. Sylvanas should have lost ALL of her Val’kyr at that point, not just one, and Nathanos should’ve not been there if he absolutely had to survive. If he HAD to be there AND survive, he should’ve been one-shot by Tyrande so hard it took the rest of her Val’kyr to bring him back. The Horde PC could’ve recovered his body, gathered up the remnants of the Horde in Darkshore, and started it’s resistance, coming off as at least a Hero to the Horde, pulling it from the clutches of total defeat, barely. It would’ve been great if the Horde PC got a few dialogue options in future interactions with Nathanos to humble him every time he mouths off, because of this.

(Commentary): Complete agreement on this point.

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This is what I really don’t understand.

Why is it okay for the Horde to nearly wipe out the Night Elves, destroy their lands and send them to hell but it’s not okay for the Night Elves to get a minor victory after that because “things have to be equal” ?

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