Shadow QoL + Slight Rework ( edited )

Hi there,

I have had some ideas in regards to SP percolating for some time now and I am ready to share them.

Lets start with the slight rework, we all hate shadow crash in its current state dont we ?
I would suggest to remove the cd on shadow crash altogether, make it cost insanity instead and possibly increase its damage per target hit, what this would achieve is give us a different kind of game play based on the amount of targets, rather then playing almost exactly the same in ST and AOE which gets dull very quickly.

Or an idea similar to what Aneurysm has put forth: shadow crash removed and its place taken by void eruption but without the void bolt part attached to it which I think is redundant and adds unnecessary bloat in ST rotation, so it would look something like this you keep the cast time on it and have it require 50 insanity so it would become a AoE spender further separating AoE game play from single target and giving us so much fun and cool animation used more often.

Now the dark ascension would still be a primary cd but in place where void form now is I would do a choice node that would modify how dark ascension works.

1st choice would be increasing non periodic damage and the 2nd choice would be increasing periodic damage, further adding some build diversity depending on the preferred game play and type of content, one would be better for Tyrannical weeks while the other coupled with nzoth would be better for Fortified weeks.

Now as to the dot application part since shadow crash would operate differently I have 3 ideas based on how much blizz wants us to be casting:

Go straight to idea nr 4 as 1 and 2 and 3 proved to have some unintended issues.

  1. Remove whispering shadows talent ( dots applied via shadow crash ) and mental decay talent, bring back dark void talent functionality and merge it with misery so it would look something like this: first cast of vampiric touch generates 10-15 insanity and applies vt and swp to 11 nearby enemies 10-15yd range 15s CD. Now what this does is eliminate the frustration of applying dots via slow moving ground targeted spell and moves it to actual dot application spell while also giving some more incentive to cast vt every 15s even on single target simply for that insanity gain ( preserving dot application through non instant cast game play which was once core thing for shadow but now lacks some depth to it since the game has changed ) and freeing up 2 talent points that finally could be used for some utility like mental fortitude or psychic horror.

  2. Now this option would lean more on unfurling darkness, so again remove 2 talents mentioned above and slightly rework unfurling darkness making the second cast of vt be instant and apply vt and swp through misery talent to nearby targets ( 10 ).

  3. This option would lean more on old school kind of game play giving even more incentive to applying dots manually, again remove those 2 silly and unnecessary talents and rework unfurling darkness to something like: first cast of vampiric touch on any target instantly splashes 30% ( would obviously need some tuning as to not become op ) of total vt and swp damage to nearby targets and debuffs target with unfurling darkness for 15s preventing spamming this on any single target. Now what this option would do is totally change the game play back again to being a dot applier first and foremost while still being able to keep up with damage on short living packs.

  4. Lets take Aneurysm`s idea ( with my own spin on it ) of Cascade being the primary dot spreader but not dot applier.
    The difference is you have to manually dot main target 1st which accomplishes having to manually dot every so often.

Then lets place the initial spell in general priest talent tree either as a 3rd option in a place with divine star and halo or replace one of those.

Then lets add as a choice node with misery a talent that would build up on cascade reducing its damage and cd to 10s ( so the ability is used primarily for dot spread rather then pumping dmg ) Now what this does is as follows:
1st of all it gives a all round solution for dot spread no matter what situation be it long fight, short fight doesnt matter since cd is so short, it still requires you to manually dot once every 15s on main target which is what blizz wants us to do anyway.

Now as for Mental Decay it can have a new and better purpose rather then being a silly band aid, new functionality could be: when you apply vampiric touch or shadow word pain it deals instantly ( 20-30 % ) of its total damage 15s cd ( unique per target )

How all of this combined would look like is you either pick up misery for pure single target or a council type of fight with only few targets alongside Mental Decay.

This would provide a bit of extra dmg every 15s making doting and redoting not be seen totally as a waste of time and outdated game play.

Meanwhile In a m+ or high number of targets kind of situation you would pick a Cascade talent instead of misery.

This would give you an ability to spread your dots easily but still require you to dot main target and with mental decay alongside it you would not feel bad about having to dot the main target or re dot it every 15s since it would provide some extra dmg on the 1st manual application but not on the spread itself.

Now on to the QoL part:

First since we most probably are going back to having a s2 tier set in s4 that means we are losing on insanity gain therefore we need a revert of change as to how shadowy insight works ( making it again give an extra charge rather then reseting remaining cd )

Secondly I would double the amount of absorb from pw:s, double the cd and double the speed movement buff duration or the amount meaning either 80% movement speed for 3s or 40% for 6s from body and soul.

What this does is provide slightly more survivability while giving a more incentive to pick void shield talent which is almost never picked as the pw:s is so small that it almost always gets insta depleted, also mental fortitude shield should be able to go higher then 10% of max hp 15-20% would be fine.

Third making Idol of Yogg-Saron be manually activated upon reaching certain stacks, how many times has this ability procced when the pack was nearly dead or actually dead making it useless is beyond me, just let it be triggered by lets say swp at 25 stacks and give players some more control over it for crying out loud.

And lastly make our capstones more impactful. Now this would prolly have to be done in next xpac as it would require more balancing then the other changes proposed.

Basic intention would be to shift more damage to capstones making them do something rather then being just some slight boosts or fillers.

Idol of C 'Thun would be the rng one making us do some exceptional dmg when rng favors for ppl who like that game play.

Yogg Saron and Y 'Shaarj would be the more consistent ones while N`Zoth would be the aoe / m+ one but I would remove the target cap and damage cap completely.

Please let me know what you guys think.

I always look forward to seeing people come forth and share their ideas of how to address the issues revolving around Priest and Specifically Shadow.

Having said that, I have my own thoughts and ideas on the best direction to take shadow in and I don’t think I need to restate them here.

But, I do want to address your AOE ideas.

Yes, Shadow Crash needs to either be replaced outright with a different spell for dot spreading or at the bare minimum have another spell compete with it in them sharing the same talent node.

But the idea revolving around making Vampiric Touch be both the dot application as well at the dot spreader just doesn’t sit well with me.

So you’re saying you want to use VT the same in both single target and multi target to spread dots… yet affect 11 targets within its radius?

The issue with that is that if you only intended to dot 1 or a few targets, then you can accidentally dot more then the ones you want. What if you or someone else needs to cc the other targets or threat has not been established from the tank on all the mobs and you cause some mobs running around wasting your time and the tanks time to get things back in line?

Basically, you have no control which targets receive the dot or not because you have to use the spell regardless if it’s a single target or not.

Then if it did spread 11 or so targets with dots for a single cast, you can just cast a few and dot up packs and packs of mobs without much effort which would just be too OP imo.

It just would not feel like a shadow priest.

It would feel completely different from anything to the core of what Shadow has ever been or should ever be imo.

As for the other ideas, as I said, I have my own ideas as to the direction to take for Shadow and I will just say we have a difference of opinion as I don’t think I need to rehash them here again.

Thank you for your reply, I am sorry that you did not read through my post to have an accurate response to what was stated, the idea of casting once to have the dots spread was only the 1st idea out of 3 proposed in that particular issue and also there I mentioned a 15cd on that ability as to not be able to cast multiple times and have packs and packs doted with no effort. Now when it comes to doting targets that are meant for cc I have covered that as well with there being a short range to this ability which would be 10-15yds which makes it somewhat similar to shadow crash radius so if u are able to not break cc with shadow crash u can do that too with targeted vt spread on specific target so yeah you got the control and also to the point of aggro not being established that is just silly arguing maybe in a m+ 0 that would be an issue otherwise tanks got aggro right on pull almost all the time if there are burst aoe classes that can survive I can guarantee you that there would be no issue with dots spreading to nearby targets which then takes some time to start doing actual dmg.

Now all of that said it was only in regards to the 1st idea mentioned there are 2 others which play differently and dont have the issues ( even tho they are non issues in my mind ) that the 1st idea has in your opinion.

If you want your ideas to be read and considered seriously, having them in a format more akin to what you would actually see on the talent instead of paragraphs and clarifiers does a lot to help the reader who does not have the same head cannon as you do to easily disseminate what it is exactly you are attempting to convey.

Having said that, having VT have a cooldown tied to it is even worse.

If it gets dispelled by some PvE mechanic or in PvP then you are sol for 15 sec?

That sounds awful, unfun and all kinds of bad.

My point still stands, it is a bad idea to merge something we need to be able to apply at any moment of time to the correct target(s) to be a cooldown and area of effect contained in the same button.

Applying dots should be a surgical scalpel in allowing you precise control on where and when to apply it and not a bludgeon hammer that’s coat’s everything all the time. As bad as Shadow Crash is from a mechanical standpoint, it being a separate button is preferable in order to not mess with the way Vampiric Touch works on its own.

So yea, I simply flat out disagree with a direction to make VT an AOE button and even more so attaching a restriction on it to prevent recast for any reason someone might want.

Cook up some more ideas, because I’m telling you this one ain’t it chief.

At this point I am starting to wonder whether you are trolling me, the cd I mentioned would be on the spread ability not on the vampiric touch itself so dunno what you on about, good way to project and make some1 elses ideas worse then they are I guess ?

Having said that all the issues you got are dispelled apart from not liking to apply dots in aoe fashion which is weird I guess you dont play much m+ do you ? But even then If you despise so much having an ability to apply dots in a aoe fashion have a look at the idea nr 2 and more specifically nr 3 I posted. Like I mentioned in my previous reply I am really sorry you have not read through the material with the intention to understand what is being proposed rather then with an intention to find flaws ( which are not there if you look closely ) just so you can look smart ( which it doesnt make you btw )

If there are more people like you in this community no wonder blizz cant make up their minds because attitudes like this are very unhelpful.

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You are correct. He trolls every priest post that tries to fix Shadows AoE including mine. He offers no solutions, just bashes on everyone’s ideas with vague and lengthy mental gymnastics. If you inspect his character, you will see that he doesn’t even play shadow, it’s a poorly geared alt with no raiding, mythic or rated pvp play.

I had heard that people would troll other classes in order to make sure their main remains better, but I didn’t believe it until now. No wonder blizzard tunes out player feedback with all of this noise and nonsense. I’m only on the forums because my class has a problem and I want to fix it.

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Yeah Ive just done that ( inspecting the acc ) and came to the same conclusion if thats true which it most likely looks like then it is kinda sad and pathetic.

I am in the same boat as you ( being here only to provide some ideas for the class to be fixed as it is in a bad state game play wise )

This is an enormous downgrade as now you can’t precast VT while a pack is being set up for fear of wasting the AoE application. Honestly this criticism can be made for all 3 suggestions but it’s most applicable here.

He’s not actually, though he’s equally unhelpful as one. He used to play shadow before legion (When it had no aoe gameplay or capabilities at all) and thinks everything after that ruined his spec.

Nothing but childish insults and strawmans instead of actual genuine conversation with the intent to understand.

If you two bozos spent more time looking at what I have written up in my feedback posts and less time looking up my character you can see that I do in fact offer up solutions to a great deal many issues. But again, I’m not about to flood every post with my ideas because I’m not on the level of drowning out others feedback.

In regards to my “authority” since you both seem to think you need to have something as stupid as that to put forth ideas, my experience can easily be seen if you just look at the PvP section alone and see the great deal of Battleground History I have built up over the years.

Yes granted as Hpellipsis has eluded to, I severely disliked the Legion direction of Shadow and after taking a break during Legion and BFA, I decided to come back to Shadow when I witnessed its abysmal state in Shadowlands Beta. But when that ended up being a half cooked mess, I didn’t think it was attractive enough for me to come back.

Similar case going into Dragonflight. With DF, it became something I do find enjoyment from, but it can be so much better. So I’ve played a bit but after being out for 4-6 years among other reasons, I’ve just haven’t gotten enough reason to get fully invested yet.

But all of that shouldn’t even need to be considered, explained and acknowledged because on the topic of ideas, it should be the best ideas that float to the top. Not the speaker of those ideas.

You two bozos seem to think you need the correct accolades to even weigh in on ideas and as such you try to command the direction of a specific narrative. This is precisely the reason the world is so messed up now, small groups of people who think they are better than the rest attempting to stamp out opposing ideas instead of making better ones.

I offered my feedback and I comment on yours. It is your responsibility to make clear and concise messaging and explain actions, not that of the reader to correctly disseminate and separate your ideas as you have poorly written them in a paragraph format with multiple clarifiers as I mentioned already.

If you truly want to have your ideas understood and be implemented, try writing them as you would find them in game.

Because I assure you, you would not see what you wrote in a talent or spell tooltip. If you are going to argue over this point then you either are not serious about the idea in the first place or too stubborn to take on actual genuine feedback. In either situation, your ideas can be dismissed if you can’t put forth the minimum effort of taking in feedback and instead just lash out with personal attacks because your feelings got hurt? Grow up. This should be a place of ideas, not a popularity content. Get over yourself.

I really want Mind Sear back, but could live with an AOE spender. S1 of Dragonflight was the closest I have come to switching to playing Shadow full time. I hesitated to switch because I figured they would change it, and they did so I was glad I didn’t waste the time.

S1 Mind Sear was amazing, with the only significant downside of maybe wasting a free proc. Was a really big fan of it in S1 and played that alt a bunch. Would prefer if they also allowed you to move while channeling Mind Sear or Mind Flay Insanity, even with a snare. Or at least give some sort of refund if you have to break the Insanity channel.

I can say I’m not a Shadow main, not a big fan of the current iteration. Have always liked the channeled spells on it and played it as an alt. I just wish it was more like Marksmans Rapid Fire where you could move while channeling.

I’ll copy/paste my suggestions.

-Misery should be changed to merge the properties of Vampiric Touch into Shadow Word Pain and make it AoE cast. This would make our dots instant cast and remove buttons bloat. There’s literally no reason for me to have SWP on my action bar at the moment. Keep the 8 target limit so Psychic Link doesn’t become OP.

-Shadow Crash should be changed to an AoE spender with a faster missile fired at a target instead of on the ground. Put it on a choice node with Psychic Link. Let players choose focus target cleave style vs stronger AoE.

-Mental Decay should increase the duration of dots on enemies near the target as well like Shadow bolt.

-Alter the numerical value of our Mastery so that half is provided by Shadow Word Pain and half from Devouring Plague.

-Change Catharsis(PvP) so that it deals a baseline damage but has a 20 second refresh and only let it deal the extra damage on main target, otherwise it would be OP if it remains as is. Removed Unfurling Darkness.

They recently buffed us last week, but as I’ve said repeatedly, numbers tunings won’t fix our flawed AoE mechanics in short fights, add spawns or with moving targets. We don’t cast our dots because they deal damage, we do it because our class mechanics can’t function without them… All of our procs, most of our talents and also our mastery depends on having dots applied to our enemies, we need to be able to cast them on large groups on demand.

Our class needs another rework, PvP is unplayable because of no mobility and barely getting a cast off. But these changes would at least fix our AoE unreliability and allow us to at least apply dots in pvp without getting perma interrupted or dispelled.

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Because you seem to think my comments are not matching to your ideas…
The way this reads is exactly what I mentioned that would be problematic.

This does not mention when you cast Dark Void (which I think you were trying to say) it says instead when your first cast Vampiric Touch.

Revise your feedback and update it to be clear and concise.

Stop getting your feelings hurt when you have actual genuine constructive criticism to take on.

The fact that I have to point this out means you basically never reread your feedback to try and self critique it yourself which again demonstrates just as I stated, that you are not serious enough and instead lash out with personal attacks.

Grow up.

Edit:

In all honesty, my initial response seems to still fit aside from the cooldown part which I missed because once again, everything blended to one another and are very similar. But that’s beside the point because with the cooldown or not, it still is troublesome.

What you really seem to want is Misery just makes VT apply SW:P and up to 11 targets around your initial target… but then incur a 15 sec cooldown.

15 second cooldown for what? The spread or VT itself has a cooldown?

This is what I mean by clear and concise.

You have things poorly written and left up to the reader to know what you’re thinking without putting it down properly on paper in written format.

Spend more time criticizing ideas and making yours better than going after personal accolades of others as that should have no baring to the conversation at hand.

If it is as I suspect, then it should read as follows…

  • Misery
    Vampiric Touch also applies Shadow Word: Pain to the target. Shadow Word: Pain lasts an additional 5 sec.
    Vampiric Touch is applied to up to 11 additional targets within 15 yards.
    This effect cannot occur more than once every 15 sec.

So working on the presumption that this is what you had in mind, I still take issue with it. Because again, it takes control out of the players hands.

In PvP this is horrible if you are trying to set up your dots on a target but also maybe you want to not dot a target because it is going to get CC and damage would break the CC.

So now you have to tip toe around trying to cast VT and hope the target you want to CC is not going to be in range of your primary target when you cast VT.

All this does is add extra unnecessary complexity into just spreading dots.

You need to take into consideration multiple aspects of gameplay involved, not just focusing on M+ environment.

With this idea…

It’s similar to my idea apart from the spreading to multiple targets aspects.

In reality, I think that is just too strong.

But I would state that I would like Unfurling Darkness to just instant cast every other VT.

This helps spread dots quickly without being overpowered. So remove the instant cast VT 15 internal cooldown and have it so every other cast is instant.

This helps spread cleave quickly while also helping in PvP to be less susceptible to spell lockouts.

Since it was mentioned that I offer no feedback myself.

Here is a direct link, go nuts and feel free to criticize mine or not, I really don’t care.

And from that link, among my numerous feedback points, you would find this…

  • Unfurling Darkness (Redesign to be more useful)
    After casting Vampiric Touch on a target, your next Vampiric Touch is cast instantly.

Well that is understandable hence the idea nr 2 when the spread is not on the 1st cast but rather the second via unfurling darkness proc ( so u can hold the proc for a few seconds while the pack is being set up, which is quite similar to holding shadow crash now ) so dunno how this criticism applies to idea nr 2 please clarify or idea nr 3 which operates on totally different game play altogether.

As to what aneurysm said :

Well that is nice and cool but has no merit to it, I am grateful that you took your time to to respond but like I said I am really sorry that you did not read through properly ( and no I dont need to build my sentences as if they were already working talents because its a discussion not an implementation ) If you cant focus long enough to paint a fuller picture of the idea proposed that says more about you than about me.

In regards to your authority yes to put forth ideas you need to actually play the current game, have some experience of how things work now not 5-6 years ago which you clearly do not have, hence your replies are kinda low value, none of what I proposed was targeted at pvp at all since I dont play it and regard it as a secondary kind of thing just like the devs do.

You are right in that it should be the ideas that float to the top not the speaker but honestly how can you have a good indication of your or some1 elses idea if you dont play the game.

I am willing to take feedback from some1 who has an actual clue of the state of the class
as it is now, having some experience in current raid and m+ environment, because that is crucial in discerning which ideas would benefit the class and which would not.

You can stop addressing the issues with the 1st idea since I have already took the feedback and responded that the 2nd idea eliminates the issue that the 1st one had which is taking control out of players hands. And no spreading dots to 12 targets on a 15s cd wouldnt be too strong since you already have an option of doing it to 8 targets on a 20s cd ( it would be a bit stronger but not op strong ) and would actually help on lower keys where packs die a bit faster and remove the clunkiness that shadow crash creates but you would know that if you played the game.

And lastly you have not touched at all the idea nr 3 or any of the QoL changes that I proposed, which again paints a picture of you focusing only on the negatives and not trying to see anything positive that was proposed ( which there is plenty if you care to look and know how spec plays atm ).

I just want to bring this home for any1 reading these ideas are not perfect these are just an ideas which have some issues with it hence the discussion to refine it, but some of you are acting like they should be perfect from the get go.

Which is why Shadow Crash becoming an AoE spender, instead of a dot applicator, makes more sense in my opinion. It would fulfill the roll of Mind Sear without the frustration of lost procs or insanity.

You really are an ignorant and petulant child.

You have no idea what you’re talking about.

You don’t need to be up to date in the most bleeding edge content to understand the basics of how a spec plays out of the gate.

What you are talking about is simple easy to understand concepts.

If you were leveling a new priest, you would come across and understand these interactions that are both currently in game and what you are proposing long before you hit max level let alone doing bleeding edge content.

So let me get this straight, when the new Voidform era began going into Legion, my 10+ years of experience is instantly invalidated unless I actually play something that I dislike from a core ground up level and only when I achieve the highest accolades in Raiding, M+ and PvP would my opinion hold merit?

That is the argument you are making. You are saying that unless you have a proper level of experience, your voice should be silenced.

You claim someone like me is the issue with blizzard and class design because they listen to the wrong feedback or something? Yet you are the one that can’t make coherent statements and trip over your words because they can be read in a way that doesn’t fit your head cannon because you refuse to take the time to self critique your own work and just expect everyone to swallow what your peddling wholesale without any pushback or even the faintness hint of miscommunication on your part.

You made no clear indication of the 15 second criteria be it the spell itself or the effect because maybe your just totally ignorant but there have in fact been cases in the games history that taking a talent would cause a cooldown in a spell and not just the effect it’s connected with.

You made no clear indication what yours was referring to, you only assumed people will read it the way you thought it up.

You’re a terrible proponent of ideas when you can’t even criticize your own work and make it better. You just want to stand in your soap box and shout out how everyone else just doesn’t get it and your ideas and perfectly fine.

What’s the point in sharing your ideas on an open forum if you’re not prepared to be challenged on the very concepts they are based around?

If you don’t want to improve, that’s your choice. But to act like your crap don’t stink is just arrogant ignorance.

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Now your colors are truly shown thanks for that clarification :wink:

You are the one with no clue what you are talking about, I did not state that you have to be up to date in the most bleeding edge content but simply up to date with current state of the game and class as in you need to be aware of how the game is being played atm to understand certain timings, how packs are being pulled etc. ( giving you better perspective on the ideas that would work right now not 5 years ago ) Dont know how you can find that part illogical.

As to the part of me not making a coherent statements I do apologize I did not realize some things had to be spelled out as if I was talking to children ( the cd on either vt or spread being most hilarious it is quite obvious that some1 who plays a class and knows what it needs would not propose a cd on a main ability rather then the spread part of it)

Which again I have adressed several times but I guess you did not bother to read that either.

I do in fact take criticism hence why in my last reply I have concurred that the 1st idea while providing some benefits would be causing some issues and proposed to take nr2 or nr3 instead so yeah wrong again.

Finally like I said multiple times already you have not took the time to read through the entire thing as you have not commented on the other ideas or QoL changes proposed, the way you make it all look like is just like I summarized before, you look for flaws only and with that mindset no good discussion can be had, think about that.

Maybe less to 3, but a huge part of Shadow’s AoE gameplay right now is casting vampiric touch on targets while the pack is grouping up to get damage / mastery rolling and be able to blast off more efficiently once things group up. Having to sit on VT because you can’t waste its AoE component is a huge loss in those situations.

Really?
You think you’re entitled to have feedback written about everything you write?

And so what? When people agree with you, you want them to shower you with praise and tell you how amazing you are?

Grow up.

You’re not entitled to anything and especially in the form you want it in.

I think it’s a waste of time to just mindlessly agree with someone personally.

I focus more on fixing issues by solving problems. The most I will do is give credit when I get inspired from something I like, but I’m not just an NPC follower handing out praise and appreciation to every post I don’t disagree with. I don’t have the time nor inclination to bloat up the forums with constant pats on the back.

Regarding bleeding edge comment.
You very well know that was just an example. I’m using an extreme to highlight the trajectory you’re heading down.

But once again you make a statement that shows your only focus is in a single aspect of gameplay and you disregard the rest.

Just because you don’t partake in other aspects of the game doesn’t mean you shouldn’t consider them when you are proposing ideas that affect them.

When you are a designer, you need to take into account all aspects that are affected, not just to one you like and completely disregard the rest. That’s short sighted.

So when I bring up areas that your idea fails or struggles in, instead of taking on the feedback, you attempt to discredit and assassinate my character instead of my ideas.

I’m not some cuddly teddybear here to make you feel good about your ideas, I’m direct and to the point. I focus on what I find problematic. In doing so I don’t see the need to address things that are not that big of a deal or rather I want to emphasize the main issue I find myself confronted with. The rest I leave out as I don’t want to loose focus over what I think is the primary issue at hand.

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Don’t engage with him. He does this on every thread. The more he pollutes the the conversation the less likely we will even be able to have a conversation about how to fix our AoE which this dude does not want.