Every thread huh?
Somehow I find it highly doubtful you even read 10% of what I’ve written in these Priest forums and that’s being generous.
Just because you can’t take criticism either because someone that disagrees with your ideas and criticizes them on function alone somehow translate to be doing this in every thread.
Such an insufferable child. Find yourself a backbone and grow up.
I guess I know where you are heading with this but then explain to me how is it different from now when you have to w8 with shadow crash too for the pack to be gathered, or how is it different from any on demand aoe class in that regard ? they focus on single target spells / attacks until the pack is gathered so in idea nr 2 what would you do is do the same ? Cast vt which would proc unfurling darkness giving you an ability to spread dots on nearest 11 targets instantly on the next vt application so in the meantime which should not take very long either, you can still spam your mind spikes , mind games halo etc pop cds to get ready for blast off ( if it does take too long then it is on the tank and every aoe class suffers in that scenario there is no going around it if you want aoe )
As to what aneurysm has said :
No I dont think I am entitled to anything but if you cherry pick some parts which you dont like and then judge solely based around that it makes you kinda childish.
I dont need for people to shower me with praise either, but would prefer if some1 who wants to judge read the whole book first otherwise it is just disingenuous and childish, which you constantly blame me for yet you are the one doing it over and over funny isnt it ?
In regards to the bleeding edge comment what you did was project hard and you know that, but again what can I expect from some1 who behaves the way you do.
Sure you are right in that regard when it comes taking into account all aspects that are affected , but you have to do some really hard mental gymnastics as to come up with issues that would arose from implementing idea nr 2 or 3 ( I have already given up on the 1st one as I said before ) so again hard projections on your part.
I am taking the feedback all the time which my responses clearly demonstrated from the very 1st reply that I gave you, you would know that if you bothered to read them thoroughly.
I did not want to discredit you in any way until you showed me that you are not taking this seriously by not even being able to read through the responses thoroughly not to mention the OP so that one is on you 
Sure I appreciate that, like I said I dont need any1 to make me feel better I even stated that these ideas are not perfect and I am aware of that, but the issues that you think are there are actually not there and you would know that if you were playing the game which you are not so here we are again with a necessity for an experience to have a valid idea but fore some reason that eludes you.
Do yourself and everyone here a favour and just flag his posts. Unfortunately there isn’t an ignore option. If anyone wants to have an actual good faith conversation about how to fix our AoE problem, it can’t happen on the forums right now.
It is quite sad to be honest, like I dont need or want to keep going in this direction, I would much prefer having some honest back and forth conversation but it really is impossible when some1 doesnt bother to read your posts thoroughly and just focuses on the things they dont like even tho those things have been rectified ;f Not to mention not having an up to date experience as to be able to comprehend proposed changes fully.
You still don’t see fault even though I already pointed it out?
Maybe your reading comprehension needs to be called into question.
In PvP, if you want to CC a target and you VT a target, this can spread to other targets you DID NOT intend for that to happen because either you shackled an undead ghoul from a DK or your partner is wanting to sheep/sap/blind or w/e other hard CC a target nearby your targeted VT target.
You claim you’re done with #1 okay fine. But your #2 post has the similar problem of having your single dot spell to be OUT OF YOUR CONTROL in spreading to other targets.
Quoted below…
You say targets ( 10 )
Meaning you have no control when this will accidentally put your dot on a target you did not intent to do it for.
THIS IS BAD DESIGN
Is it clear now that I am using capital letters?
Your idea completely fails at least in PvP and has the chance to fail in other content areas as well.
I shouldn’t even need to say any more because this 1st point of failure is enough justification to go back to the drawing board because your suggestion would be baked in to every shadow priest. There is no choice.
Currently Unfurling darkness is good for PvP to get those instant cast VT out since you can’t solely rely on Shadow Crash for instance application because targets can just move out of the area of effect or be dispelled.
So with current Unfurling Darkness, you can have another opportunity to instantly apply VT without breaking a CC accidentally which your suggestion breaks entirely.
You have no clue to the basics of general gameplay and yet you lecture me on my playtime.
If I who doesn’t even play that much due to multiple reasons can see the flaw in your suggestion and state it as such and you who apparently plays more then I do can’t even see or comprehend such a scenario then once again you just highlighted the fact that with all your postering, you still have no idea how just basic gameplay works from a concept ground level perspective.
On that note, check out my suggestions, it’s the 12th post. I assume it got lost in the sound. We’re both trying to fix the same problem without breaking things.
And yours still have the same issues as I pointed out in your thread.
What you want is to essentially remove VT outright and just have instant cast SW:P as the only dot we can cast consistently.
Okay fine, so you want to return to classic wow.
But in doing so, you loose another element of shadow as a whole, a point of interest to create mechanical interactions as talent choices. You also make Shadow more mobile as I mentioned which then makes them less reliant on hard casting which goes against the entire reason they removed the Instant Cast Mind Spike, Damnation and all the other aspects that clearly show they want to root us in place like keeping a casting time on Voidform and Dark Ascension.
What you are suggesting throws the entire spec into question as to what it should even be because it will become completely different.
I don’t think you grasp the gravity of the changes you are suggesting will have upon shadow to make it feel nothing like a caster class or how shadow has ever felt.
Again, shout your ideas all you like, but know that they are riddled with severe issues that Cascade on one another and have very little chance at being taken seriously to the point of implementation.
I have to give it to you, you are the funniest person I have interacted with so far you blame me for my reading comprehension yet it clearly says in the post that you quoted " making the second cast " Now please do explain to me how you dont have control over your second cast and how is that out of your control ? Seriously that is just plain stupid, if you know you have ccs around the 2nd target you can just simply ignore the proc ? no ? too hard ? out of your control ? Or better yet if that is such a bothersome feature to you make it not spread to cced targets hows about that ? there is already tech in place for that but see you would rather look for the issues than solutions which you are proving yet again.
Yes you do have total control since it is short range around the target you choose to dot from unfurling darkness proc how are you still not getting that I have no idea.
It doesnt completly fail in pvp when taking into consideration what I have just wrote and on top of that It would be of great benefit in pve you know the game most ppl play which again you got no idea about.
Holy Christ. Seriously?
Fine, let’s just take arena for example. In 3v3. You have 3 targets and if you want to dot up 2 but not 1 then you cast VT on 1 and then have to make sure your second VT hits the 2nd target but NOT the 3rd target.
This is what I mean when I mentioned you have to tiptoe around and pick the correct target and wait for the correct time to make sure they are not at the correct distance apart so you can use a single target spell that only sometimes becomes AOE.
Then you have to keep up this back and forth mental memory of which VT spreads vs not spread and consistently time your VT application on the correct target at the correct time to not accidentally break a CC target.
How do you not comprehend this?
Will you start reading my posts in full or not ? Right now you are just arguing for the sake of arguing, I have already said that if it bothers you so much you can have it NOT spread to cced targets, there problem solved, next please. Now onto the tip toing part dear dear you dont have to keep in mind anything as the spread part is from UNFURLING DARKNESS PROC, you do keep a track of your procs dont you ? if not then your quite the pvp player I guess…
I’m just getting caught up. Can you help me understand something?
You chastise Anuerysm for lacking recent game knowledge but you post from a level 11 character with 60 achievement points. Did I miss where your relevant shadow priest experience comes from? Is this an alt or are you from EU?
EU, same nickname if you want to check it out, nothing to hide there
Wow, simply astounding.
You do know that you often CC a target AFTER you have already engaged in combat and already applied your damage right?
You can be mid fight and a target needs to be blinded but OH NOEZ your VT got applied accidentally to it prior to the blind going off and thus break the blind because a stupid built in AOE spread mechanic in a single target spell.
Just because you think smart targeting to avoid CC targets will work will in fact NOT work when you haven’t applied the CC yet but intend to after the fact.
With your idea, you have you change how you dot targets based on distance and timing… aka tip toeing around for no reason.
As I stated initially…
You are adding unnecessary complexity.
This is a poorly designed interaction that to just overlook its failure and claim it’s not a big deal and get over it once again highlights just how stubborn and arrogant you are thinking that in that form is a reasonable addition to the game with a whole slew of different levels of skill among the playerbase.
Simply astonishing.
I figured this was the case but wanted to check. Being level 11 instead of 10 threw me off.
Wow your logic is just next level you do realize that it is a talent that you can actually skip right ? Or better yet ignore the proc if you intend to be ccing a target, the whole point of this change is yet again to improve pve game play you know the main game play not the secondary game which is pvp, you can scream and shout all you want but this game was always and will always be designed around pve first and foremost.
And I want to bring home one more thing how is your imagined issue different now with shadow crash applying dots huh ? You either dont use it in pvp or you are mindful on how you want to use it, same thing just use your brain.
As I already mentioned, having Unfurling Darkness in its current form is a good talent for PvP because of the instant VT application as a backup or in addition to the Shadow Crash instant VT application.
With Shadow Crash, targets can move out of the way or get dispelled. Either case scenario you have Unfurling Darkness to fall back on to get instant VT back on target.
But with your suggestion, you are taking a decent PvP talent and breaking it for PvP while adding very little to PvE as it’s just unnecessary complex.
You are so fixated on this idea of making a core single target spell blur the line to also be our AOE spell that you don’t see the forest from the trees.
I’m quite aware of your limited perspective as I have already pointed out.
Yes the majority of the game is designed around PvE in mind.
But if you want to travel that road then let’s go down it.
Most of the reasoning given during the blue post for priests during DF beta dubbed the PWGFY post, most of the reasoning was PvP related.
So like it or not but they consider PvP when doing class and talent design. You refusing to even acknowledge let alone entertain that fact shows just how short sighed and ill prepared you are and why you just can’t see past your own nose aka gameplay experience.
It’s a different button.
As I mentioned in the first post, because it’s separate, it is not competing to do what you need to do with VT in wanting to always have it applied to your targets you are wanting to deal damage to.
With your Unfurling Darkness change suggestion, you merge AOE and single target in the same button that can lead to accidental usage at wrong target or time or both and cause unnecessary complications as I already stated numerous times.
Right so let me get this straight with shadow crash targets can move out of the way or get dispelled but with unfurling darkness aoe dot spread being similar in range to shadow crash targets other than intended target cannot move out of the way or be dispelled ? Wow that is some mental gymnastics right there, keep it coming.
I never said that they totally ignore PvP obviously they have to take that into account, but still its primarily designed and balanced around PvE.
What my idea does is take current design which is already there and just streamline it a bit and make it less clunky for PvE which every SP worth their salt playing the game right now wants ( easier less clunky dot application )
Yes its a different and unnecessary button and then you wonder why people complain about button bloat when all you want is to live in a perfect world where every button is perfect for a unique situation ( hint it is never going to happen look at any class with your mind set and you will always find some thing that is not ideal )
Its the same functionality we already have like I said you keep arguing for your limitation and looking only for issues with that mindset you will never get anything done
and kinda shows especially recently how many times SP have been changed unsuccessfully.
Now if you actually bothered to read the rest of the OP you might see that there were some improvements mentioned that would help in PvP too.
So in summary use your brain, communicate with your team mates, dont use the proc if it is not the right time or dont use the talent altogether if you cant do any of the aforementioned, but dont gate keep clear PvE improvements because of your one in a thousand hypothetical situation that is easily rectified.
Shadow Crash has travel time. Targets can move out of the way thus if your intent is to apply VT on targets instantly, it can be negated by simply moving away from the landed area of effect prior to it actually hitting. Then if they did get hit, it can then be dispelled which causes you to need to reapply VT.
With current Unfurling Darkness, you have access to VT instantly as you need where you need it without any collateral damage aka misplacing on a soon to be CC target.
With your suggested change, you can no longer accurately predict when and if your VT will accidentally be spread or not. Sure you can track your Unfurling Darkness buff and hold back… but that is what I mean when I say you are now forced to tip toe as you are risking tripping over yourself due to poor spell mechanic implementation.
A famous comedian by the name of Chris rock once said…
“You can drive with your feet if you want to, it don’t make it a good freaking idea!”
So yea, you can make it work that way, but it doesn’t make it a good interaction.
Okay chief, if you want to be pedantic then fine.
Pedantic is an insulting word used to describe someone who annoys others by correcting small errors, caring too much about minor details, or emphasizing their own expertise especially in some narrow or boring subject matter .
Your earlier words insinuated just as much but okay.
You are not removing clunk, you are adding unnecessary complexity.
You see the issue with Shadow Crash… fine I agree, Shadow Crash is a failure on multiple levels. But your intended fix it to merge AOE with our primary Single Target dot spell.
I cant believe I have to even ask this but why cant we just replace Shadow Crash with a different spell? The extra button is not the concern when it comes to Shadow Crash, its the mechanics behind what makes Shadow Crash work the way it does.
All those issues combined make it very unfun and punishing when you miss the application due to targets moving or other reasons.
The issue is NOT the AOE button itself.
There is a whole list of better candidate spells to replace Shadow Crash with my top choices being Cascade and Unholy Nova.
Those spells are target based, not target circle area based.
That change alone makes AOE application much better on multiple levels. Then you can go a step further to add additional talent interactions that improve your dot application like Spirits extending dot duration from Metal Decay and/or they can reduce the cooldown of your dot spreader to make it so it does not have a short cooldown all the time but through active combat, you can reduce its cooldown and get a real ebb and flow going to use on demand as needed.
I held off adding my take on AOE because as I stated, I didn’t want to drown out other ideas. But that doesn’t mean I wont critique ideas when I find fault with them.
We hand Mind Sear for years, its gone now and many want it back including myself.
Bloat is reserved for things that seem pointless, not just a shear number of button quantity. They buttons need to be impactful enough to justify a place.
This is just being disingenuous. The primary reason that shadow has had its issues for as long as it has is both because we have had half fast design work done as the WoW dev designer in charge of Priest has left the past 4 times right after, during or just prior to class design time during the Beta period.
The other reason being imo that priests seem to consistently being held to a different standard that the rest of the classes. The reasons they give for not bringing back things highly requested you simply do not see other classes treated the same and in fact see exactly the opposite in that they said Priests cant have X because Class X has it already but then at the same time they give Class X the same thing as what we have or another class.
So its a lack of direction due to whoever seems to be in charge of priest development just ends up leaving for one reason or another and we get rushed out the door half fast.
Its like the curse similar to the Defense against the Dark Arts instructor in those Harry Potter stories.
As you can see, for you to understand the entire gravity of what your proposing, we have to dissect it piece by piece because my initial post was a general statement that really applies to all 3 of your proposals as they are all related in spreading or splashing damage to targets you may not want to have done so all because your merging a Single Target spell function to be sometimes AOE.
I used the arena example because it was the most common and easiest to understand.
But not everyone plays Arena. You have battlegrounds that also can fall into the trap of your suggestion changes. But they may not be able to coordinate nor should they because the mechanics of their class/spec is a failure from the ground up and out of their control. They should not have to deal with mechanical issues because someone wanted 1 less button for PvE.
Thank you for this long and thought out reply this format and tone is way better than what you have previously done I really appreciate the effort.
I am not being pedantic I am trying to be precise, you are the one that constantly takes what I say and try to project something or overemphasize it, so you are leaving me no option but to correct you.
Yes it is removing clunk, it is moving a clunky implementation of a dot spread and moving it to something smooth and easy to use.
Before I wrote the OP I was actually considering it being another spell altogether but I am quite hesitant on this part as I believe SP has enough spells as it is, so I was looking for a way to blend it with what we already have got ( which also would be easier for the devs as not requiring a total overhaul yet again )
When I said read the entire OP I meant the QoL changes as well none of what you have an issue with applies to that, the main 3 ideas were only about a dot spread improvement and the rest is about something else entirely which is not related to this particular issue.
Ill repeat it again please do not gate keep PvE improvements because of some 1 in a thousand PvP situations that can be easily avoided by all the things mentioned, all in all you can skip the talent if you find it more troublesome in certain situations then others, is it not the purpose of talents to be good in certain situations and worse in others ? therefore promoting build diversity ? You keep acting as if every talent needs to be working 100% in every situation that you can conceive of that may or may not arise and that is never going to happen.
Its goes a long way when you stay on task in discussing ideas and not attempting character assassination in an attempt to discredit someone that brought forth legitimate criticism.
They are very much closely related… read the definition I included.
someone who annoys others by correcting small errors, caring too much about minor details, or emphasizing their own expertise especially in some narrow or boring subject matter .
That perfectly explains what you did and you know it. You made a big deal about PvP and then tried to walk it back.
Except that it added unnecessary complications as I stated. Which then leads to making the spec trip over itself as it can and will behave in a manner that the user did not intend… that is a good representation of “Clunk” as its just added weight weighing down the rest of the spec.
Which I stated it was a difference of opinions because I have my own ideas for how to handle those spells. If your curious, again, check the link I left. Its all laid out there. As I stated, I am not going to flood this thread because if I shared here what I have written up, it will just overload and overtake your suggestions.
Yet you are doing the same now.
I already stated that the current Unfurling Darkness is a great PvP talent.
Just because it has little use in PvE does not mean it needs to be utterly destroyed for PvP.
That is why I once again shared my suggestion that would make it work for both. It becomes essentially cleave spell for VT in allowing you to quickly dot up targets that works for both PvE and PvE without any unnecessary conflicts.
Why it is okay for a primary PvP talent to be steam rolled over by your idea to make it better for PvE and then make PvP have to deal with the mechanical fallout issues that come alongside it?
Oh because PvE comes first? Is that it?
That is why I say you are blinded by your own perspective and refuse to see how it may affect others.
Me offering that perspective is to share something that you good and well were not aware of.
Its your choice if you want to acknowledge it and adjust or steam role over and PvP be damned, as you have just did with your response here.