They changed things because they saw no reason to cater to the 1% playerbase and wanted to keep the game alive. WoW would not have survived the 20 yrs it has if they had kept things gated to just elitists.
2 Likes
I have never understood why someone having a better geared character, or more items, or more whatever… would in any shape, way, or form affect how I feel or play…
You want BIS? OK… go get it…
I want BIS? Ok, I go get it…
You want 500000 whatever? ok, go get it…
This is why most of my characters are not even close to BIS or having ‘all the kewl stuffs’… because I myself do not want to invest the time to ‘get it’…
I play for fun, and I hope everyone else would be doing that to…
as long as I am having fun, well… I’m having fun!
I don’t let what others have or do not have impact my level of fun…
Now, I do inspect others that have some spiffy items and sometimes I say to myself… “Self, go get that kewl thing!” and then I go get that kewl thing… Sometimes I say ‘nah, no wantie’…
But, thats just my thoughts.
1 Like
You’ve hidden your profile from everyone. I suppose that’s to keep people from looking at your achievements and whatnot. Nevertheless, I’d be willing to bet that you spend more time in the game than I do.
In a good week I might get 10 hours of play in, but on the average, 5-7 hours weekly is about all I can do. My RL is my priority. I work 40+ hours a week; fix dinner and spend my evenings with my wife; try to find time to Skype with my kids and grandkids; I spend 2 nights a week occupied with band rehearsals and band-related chores; then, about half the time late-night that I think I’m going to play WoW, my best friend and Shipmate from our Navy days calls and wants to hang out in Skype. So I’m lucky just to have the time to get the weekly PvP quests, complete them, and maybe put in a few delves for some Tokens from the vault.
So yeah, I have “real life constraints” of my own. Yet I’m willing to keep up with my Conquest points and gear up as I’ve done the past 15 years (slowly), and I enjoy every moment.
This is the wrong mindset. Access shouldn’t be the barrier to entry. Personal skill should be the only thing that dictates how someone progresses their personal power level. My lack of friends shouldn’t be the reason I can’t feel like I’m getting more powerful in the content I am running.
No one said they should. But keep the gates up for role players, the people who made this game great to begin with
1 Like
I wish they would lean more into this. Like having the hardest difficulty not even having drops but an instead giving the whole raid a guaranteed mount or other account wide unlock for completing it. I mean ideally I’d just like to see a reduction in the number of difficulties too. Just have a normal difficulty that you can queue for like you can LFG and get rid of the LFG difficulty. Add in optional hard modes and get rid of Heroic. And have Mythic be a mode that you need to do as a premade but that only rewards cosmetics and is there for world first racers to compete in.
Less difficulties means more people playing together, and if they can queue for it then it makes it more accessible. One of the great things about classic design is that because there’s not different difficulties with different ilvl rewards it means even geared players will show up to older or easier raids fishing for that last piece or two of rare or bis gear and makes progression less linear. It’s cool to have a reason to participate in older/easier raids where you’re helping the less progressed players, and they can gawk at your gear/dps and get a preview of what they can get access to if they continue to higher raid tiers.
Just my 2 cents as a casual who hasn’t raided since shadowlands in retail because it feels like a pointless hamster wheel but loves all the raids in classic and shows up even though I don’t even need drops just because they are fun.
1 Like
Why not argue for removal of gear? Gear if it doesn’t have value (cause everyone gets it anyway.) Is a list of tasks (that can be undesirable) before people can play content.
1 Like
Whatever % of player put in the work, effort, and time.
2 Likes
Gear is fine, for itemizations and stat distribution, set bonuses, etc. we just dont need 4+ different versions of the same gear (LFR, Normal, Heroic, Mythic, plus M+). Just one version would do. I would rather see them build out horizontally so you have more options to choose from than build vertically where you are just earning the same gear but at higher item level with a different tint applied.
1 Like
Horizontal progression just leads to dead content.
Like the anniversary raid.
2 Likes
I’m out of the loop on the anniversary raid but one of the best parts of classic is that even Naxx geared warriors will still come to a Molten Core for a Thunderfury. The only complaint I have for classic itemization is that there aren’t sets for each spec, really, otherwise I think it’s perfect. Retail is unashamedly a hamster wheel which feels awful. Compounded by the fact that they give you borrowed power, level squishes (just to re-level and unlock things they took away) etc.
The thing with vertical progression is that it’s hard to scale vertically indefinitely without having to implement a bunch of feelsbad solutions to cut the power back down. We already see crazy scaling over the course of single xpac, and I think they need to reel it in. I’d be happy to cap player levels at 60 and just leave them there forever at this point. I mean, it’s why classic is the only version I play now, really. Retail team could learn a thing or two imo.
That’s not horizontal progression. That’s a single overbudget item. usually undesirable.
People kinda make an exception for legendaries.
Why would a Naxx geared warrior want to suffer through Molten Core again?
I mean, I’m arguing for both. I think it’s neat when content is more evergreen and less stepping stone. Even geared casters will still pop into an MC for a neck/ring/trinket and I think that’s dope. I’d like to see more horizontal progression, that’s why I said my only real complaint about classic is that not all specs have tier sets, but classic does offer some options to mix and match sets, and long lists of alternate BIS which kind of scratches that itch. And it’s hardly suffering through MC, it’s more like smashing through. Raids on farm are just a fun night with the boys, like a bowling league. Suffering is when the raid is hyper tuned for world first racers and you’re raid wiping for progression on repeat.
People will go there, but are they having fun there? That’s the question. Usually, not.
That’s what we call fun. Because if people didn’t want progress, they’d just go farm stuff.
Classic is also the place for people that wish they could’ve been there, or want to pretend that it’s the real thing.
I guess we just have to agree to disagree then. I have fun raiding in classic just for the fun of it, even though there’s nothing I need to drop. Just playing for the love of the game. I think a lot of people in retail are just so preoccupied with their endless churn that they never stop to actually ask themselves if they are truly having fun with it. The progress is an illusion, really. You grind 10 levels, they take 10 levels away. You grind for season 1 PvP gear, season 2 PvP gear is exactly the same but 15 ilvl higher. You power up a cool artifact weapon and it’s gone next year. Vault items? Could have rolled better. For me it’s agonizing because the progress is fleeting. Why get excited about something that will get taken away or replaced next patch?
I played vanilla in 2004, and it was the best game I ever played. I’m playing classic in 2024 because it’s still an absolute banger. Its design is much closer to a traditional tabletop RPG and not a FOMO GAAS trap. Class design can be fun in retail, I really enjoyed my mage until they took away the speed boosting barrages. But the rest of the game just feels like they phoned it in. Here’s your new xpac, grind ten levels in the 5 new leveling zones and enjoy your new arena map. Here’s your content patch with your new endgame zone and a special item you grind to level up. New season time to grind the same exact items with +15 ilvl. It’s the “yes honey” meme of a video game.
What makes classic special other than it’s solved content?
It still follows the same wow design: harder content equals stronger gear.
A big appeal is that it’s evergreen. I can take 6 months off and be exactly where I left off, all my gear is still BIS. No FOMO that I’m going to fall behind or that when I log in next my gear is useless. No worries that they are going to remove my favorite class features in the xpac prepatch. What you see is what you get.
Retail is also solved thanks to addons that take the mental load off of the player and tell them how to play, its just overtuned is all. The point of wow was not to be competitive or even difficult. It was designed explicitly to be a more casual version of EverQuest. If you want a hard, competitive, unsolved game then Dota is there waiting for you.
1 Like
So any game when devs stop delivering updates. Don’t see the appeal, really.
More time to beat something is good, but that’s quite different from nothing more, forever.
They have updated the game, though. Just very minor updates. Chronoboon displacer and letting the alliance get a comparable world buff, or the PvP rating changes for example. I wouldn’t be opposed to small balance tweaks to some numbers but something like SoD was just way too much.
Believe it or not, sometimes a game is just finished though. There used to be a time when games were shipped complete and received no further updates and it was good. Zoomers wouldn’t understand lol
And for those games, people tend to beat them, and move on.