And obviously key gear should be good in keys … but I don’t want to have to grind out a completely separate set of gear for raiding, and I know plenty of raiders who wouldn’t want to have to grind out a separate set for keys. Especially when this would make so many people’s lives harder while there’s simultaneously a much better alternative solution: making raid gear easier to come by without punishing people who want to do both of these things at once.
I’m pretty sure this thread is in response to all the raiders posting about how m+ is killing raiding and how rewards should be nerfed. I almost made a thread just like this last night myself.
Yes tbh I think I have crossed the wires on all these threads in my brain lol. And I’m pretty sick of seeing those threads too. But this is not the best solution IMO.
That’s funny because the mage discord states that atumbra with MLP is slightly better. However since I was unable to get MLP the WS staff with double passive is better.
Actually we were talking about all seasons.
For rogues yes. Last I checked Monks and demon hunters don’t use daggers.
It’s not an opinion. It was changed in 9.1 because people were getting weapons from pvp until they got upgrades in raid.
The pvp gear getting lower ilvl and scaling up was a nerf because of pve not pvp.
If you have the best gear be exclusive to each content then as a mage I would have to have 6 sets to play all three specs optimally in raid and mplus.
Most of the posts I see are in regard to Raid rewards and not about nerfing M+. The problem is how does Blizz balance the two.
If the big concern is the effect of Mythic Raid gear on the competive M+ ladder then capping iLevel when you enter M+ seems to be the easiest solution. Capping iLevel at the max potential M+ only players can achieve from the Vault would allow players to get BIS from just doing keys and put everyone on the same level playing field.
I don’t know why your comment only has 3 likes, because you solved the issue. PVE gear should be currency based for top tier gear.
Get rid of this RNG nonsense. If you can get bis each week, it is still 15 weeks until you are fully decked out in bis. And if that plus a few months is too long for them to come out with some new content or a new patch to keep it fresh, then that is on them.
Blizz has commented on this concept many times and their stance is that currency doesn’t feel as “fun” as getting a drop off the Boss which is a very old school MMO/D&D thing.
Unless they change their philosophy RNG is probably here to stay. I’d love to see more deterministic options added like the Catalyst though as a nice hybrid solution.
Its not just this thread, this goes beyond that. Forum conversations span multiple threads and this is a culmination of raiders in other threads complaining about ilvl of m+.
The issues raiders have with m+ is they believe that the rewards are killing raiding. However, whats killing raiding is raiding, its slow cumbersome and requires dedicated time. No one wants to do that anymore. If it wasnt for mythic+ i wouldnt even be playing the game anymore.
This is such a cop-out answer on Blizz’s part. As if we cannot enjoy seeing a drop from a boss, and also enjoy finally earning our way to the drop we kept trying for but never saw?
You know what doesnt feel fun? Killing a boss 200 times and not getting the piece your trying to get. I have 80 workshop runs, i got the ring I was looking for out of the vault.
You know what would feel amazing though? Earning a bunch of currency and right before you spent it, the thing you were looking for dropped and you could spend that currency on something else!
If this is true then it only shows how out of touch they are with gaming in general.
We’re not in the 2000s anymore lol, any loot-progression game that comes out these days tend to have stingy loot designs that only ends up getting changed to being less stingy because people realize it’s not fun killing a boss a crapton of times so you can complete your “build”.
Ion says a lot of things. He tries to convince players they should feel the way he wants to tell them to feel, so they will accept something he wants to implement rather than what they liked in the past.
I thought it was hilariously tone-deaf when he told us that it’s a really bad feeling to know when you will have enough currency saved up to buy your next piece, because finally being able to buy your conquest weapon was the most rewarding part of PvP gearing in wod. It just felt amazing.
Imagine if Arena players asked for Battleground gear to be nerfed in Arena. It makes no sense, there’s one set of Conquest gear for both.
What OP really needs is Mythic raid quality loot from higher keys. Not nerfing raid gear in keys or buffing M+ gear in keys only. Like PvP gear, PvE gear should not be split accross modes. There’s nothing more anti-rpg then that.
I agree. The more we silo things the less this game feels like a persistent world.
Capping the iLevel in M+ seems to be a more elegant solution to these issues. That would allow M+ only players to get BIS iLevel from just doing Keys and since Keys over 15 are basically Challege Modes 2.0 putting everyone on an equal footing makes sense.
The analogy to BGs compared to Arena is solid. Realistically both Arena and RBGs award BIS, and both raiding and M+ should award BIS. That’s the problem.
I honestly think moving to a full valor system, with all PvE gear regardless of endgame mode, having 14 levels of upgrade, and unlocking those upgrades from one or the other mode.
Specific later boss cleared in Mythic = 14/14 upgrades unlocked.
KSH reached = 14/14 upgrades unlocked.
Last boss Mythic drops 14/14 gear, 20 or even 25 key drops 14/14 out of the chest.
Great Vault has no inflated ilvl. You want the gear, you go do the content. But if you got a piece in Normal or a +5, you can upgrade it to full cap eventually. Same currency both modes.
You literally cannot make people happier than this.
