Yet mplus trinkets and weapons have been bis as well.
See this.
And raid bis has pieces from mplus as well.
Yawn. Meaning you can’t refute the point.
Imo they should make 2 different sets of set bonuses, one set that caters to dungeons and only appears on dungeon gear, and a separate set that caters to Raids and only appears on Raid gear.
Both sets could be active in all content, but individual performance would be a little better with the appropriate set bonuses.
You didn’t make a point. The sun is shining in the sky at high noon and you’re stumbling out of the saloon drunk trying to argue its night. There’s no “point”… you’re just incorrect. You’re making an incorrect assessment of the facts.
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Good idea but blizz can’t even balance one set per spec
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There is no advantage that raiders have over mplus guys.
People who do both will have an advantage over those that don’t. End of story.
Yeah, there’s zero % probability Blizzard does this.
Anyways, on topic, I want to say I want to see what Blizzard is doing before giving feedback, but at the same time, Blizzard is really kind of cringe sometimes and often when something hits the beta or PTR its already “locked in” so we kind of have to give preemptive feedback. What I don’t understand is why with Wrath of the Lich King they can put out these detailed posts about what they’re thinking about doing, and yet mum’s the word when it comes to Retail itemization.
Here’s the thing, you’re wrong, and even Ion Hazzikostas admits that they want M+ players to “climb to the top of the mountain”, so I’m not going to engage in some false ideological argument as we already know that Blizzard, at least on a philosophical level, intends to even the playing field.
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Your bis as Arcane comes from KT. Also its not just the pure dps that people that go for rygelon dagger are after.
Currently you compete against trinkets such as Cache, Chain, Rune, Fusion Amplifier and a couple more. The only real outliner here is you as an arcane. Potentially boomies. Thats about it. Some also having the increased ilvl going for them.
“only”. Also Daggers want a word with you.
Potatoe potato. Ye sure some bis items come from m+. However the majority comes from raiding. By a lot.
It changed for PvP and it should change for M+ given it became its own branch in the game.
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You’re right, I don’t need to do anything. Because it is by choice! I am not forced into doing something if I don’t want to do it. Nobody is sitting next to me threatening me to do this if I don’t want to do this.
There is a big difference between “choice” and “forcing”.
While I respect the motivation for the idea… I fundamentally disagree with it because it makes the game less accessible. This is already a serious issue and making it worse by forcing players to have multiple gear sets isn’t going to make it better because it just forces players to dump more of their limited time into the game.
A better solution IMO would be a currency based system where both raid and M+ award a single shared currency that can be used to buy gear. That solves the problem for both systems without overly disadvantaging either.
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It’s really not. Optimal play leaves one path forward. If optimal play leads to a bad experience… people will have a bad experience and then may quit the game. They can choose to stop playing WOW but we would be pretty objective in saying that something that leads to players quitting is bad. So in a sense, for both player satisfaction and Blizzards bottom line it makes sense to operate as if there is no choice, hence forced.
We are getting this in DF already. There’s are still gaps to be filled and uncertain questions, such as trinket acquisition and so forth.
Sometimes, it’s just easier to start with a new system than it is to fix an old one. Toss out the entire system and start with this premise.
Players who play nothing but m+, players who play nothing but raid, and players who do both should all acquire gear at the same rate based on the difficulty of the content they’re doing.
How do you meter that? Well, a capped currency would do wonders. But how do you preserve the excitement of getting a specific drop?
Cross pollination is good for the health of the game, but not if it feels forced. Having m+ gear and raid gear just builds a wall between the two that nobody crosses, as evidenced by pvp gear.
But obviously there should be some reward for doing both kinds of endgame at a high level?
So how about this. I’m call call this currency dragonbucks for clarity, don’t want anyone conflating it with a current or former system.
Every pve activity gives you dragonbucks. End game quests, dungeons, m+, and raids. You get more from group content, but solo players still get some too. This has a moving cap, like current conquest, that increases every week of the season. You use this currency to buy upgrade tokens from Alextrasza’s concubine (or whoever, someone dragon adjacent). That you can use to upgrade any gear from that season, from any source.
Then you have to ask the question: how high can you upgrade it? Well, if you’re a mythic raider, you should be able to upgrade it to mythic raid quality. If you’re a m+ boss like Ybarra, same thing. M+ is easy, you can base it on rating. Raiding, though, gets tricky. The first boss of mythic raids is usually a gimme, not as hard as the heroic end bosses. So “any mythic kill” is too low. However, raid and raid advancement are structured differently than anything else in the game. Having the raid on farm shouldn’t be a requirement for gearing up when clearing the raid at all is a seasonal goal.
I’ll take comments on this, but imho, I think clearing the heroic raid should let you upgrade to mythic quality. Now hear me out. Getting heroic on farm is obtainable by most mythic guilds. This builds the feedback loop or “get the gear, try the boss, fail, get the gear, try the boss again” instead of “try the boss, fail, extend, try again next week”.
So where does that leave us? Power gains are metered, but people who do more than one type of content get access to more mogs and more choices on what to upgrade. Jimmy Raider who hates m+ can be just as strong as Rick the Giga Chad who’s doing +20s 3 hours after raid every night.
All gear is essentially just a conduit to power, and that one awesome quest trinket that’s fun but too weak to use can now be used. Turn into a wolf or summon a swarm of chickens on a boss. It’d be great.
TL;DR: All drops are cosmetic, gear can all be upgraded. Everyone eats out of the same pond for power, but their own choice for flavor.
Those unanswered questions still loom large right now. To me there is a direct path forwards here that doesn’t involve disadvantaging either group. But with blizz… who knows what they are going to do. At this point I assume a monkey’s paw situation until proven otherwise.
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So, in otherwords, Blizzard would be sitting at everyones computer making people do things against there will. You do know what “forced” means, don’t you?
Everyone does have options, on what they want to do. Sometimes the options will be to do something that you may not like if you want something that requires in doing so, sometimes you don’t. But you do it by choice. In other words, nobody is forcing you against your will to do something that you don’t enjoy!
And in the end, if you miss out, it isn’t the end of the world. It is a computer game.
Which is really sad. I wish Blizzard could just tell us what they’re doing, like how they’re running Wrath, but they won’t, so we have to assume the worst. It’s pretty bad/sad.
They aren’t going to do this now, but yeah all gear should be separated by mode.
No, stop creating barriers to separate the community even more, we already have that with rating and aotc.
I suspect they don’t know and they aren’t confident enough to just pick a direction and go with it. So they keep ‘compromising’ because people have beliefs about what is and what isn’t “WoW”.
To me these are some of (but not exclusively) the sacred cows they need to slaughter ASAP:
- The hardest content drops the best loot
- Raid has the best loot
- Content should drop loot
If they can break those assumptions it opens them up to massively simplifying the game and making it more rewarding in general. Requiring content to drop loot instead of giving an alternative means of acquisition (currency etc.) significantly restricts how they can design things. Demanding raid has the best loot has knock on effects everywhere else and creates iLvL bloat as well as the situation that inspired this thread. Hardest content rewarding the best loot isn’t even true in many cases, but that sensibility again causes iLvL bloat and restricts design.
If the devs had courage and confidence in their work it would go a long way. I can see why they don’t, we’re not exactly supportive. But at the same time it’s hard to be supportive when they aren’t exactly supportive and confident in what they are doing and keep compromising things intentionally.
Yeah, definitely!
False. BiS is the workshop staff running double passive trinkets then rygelon dagger with MLP.
Yes and while those trinkets are good so are things like changling and ruby.
Daggers don’t compete against poxstorm.
And the difference being as the raid items can’t be spammed so they should have slight benefits.
It changed because people didn’t like being forced into pvp for pve. It was a stupid change.
Mplus and raiding are both pve. I don’t want to carry around 6 plus gear sets because mplus people don’t want to raid.