M+'s lockouts are its RNG. Literally slap 304s in 20s and call it a day fixes the issue at the high end.
I’d like to see you spam 20s for gear.
Yeah because there is no gear. So you Mythic Raid and then push keys.
I have a Raid toon and a M+ Push toon this season and yes, I can feel that not Mythic Raiding on my Mythic+ toon is definitely holding me back. If I could get better access to 304s on it, I’d have an easier time pushing.
Eh, it’s really not that hard to spam 20s for gear if they were dropping 304. I would grind it out.
We don’t need higher ilvl to drop from EOD. Just have higher ranks of Valor upgrades, higher Vault loot for higher keys timed, faster acquisition of Valor, and ensuring that this new crafting currency is not just “back luck protection” but a primary gearing mechanism for progression.
In the meanwhile, we can bump down Vault from lower keys as well. 15s don’t really need to be putting 304 in the Vault, let’s be real. Weekly15noleaver is welfare loot for heroic raiders, it ain’t really aimed at high-end M+ers who can time 25s much less those who are timing 30s.
Yeah, hit me with it.
A measly 15 giving 304 does seem a bit cooked, yeah.
We’ve had these threads before. TLDR: dividing m+ and raid loot only further divide the playerbase and will make participation with m+ and raid both drop. Blizzard might have a solution to gear in m+ but they haven’t started m+ testing yet so we don’t know what ilvl it drops.
LOL and if you capped player iLevel in M+ you wouldn’t need to do Raids to push keys. You woudn’t feel held back anymore. How is that not clear?
Players run keys above 15 right now even though there’s no loot because they’re doing it for score. It’s like any competitive ladder in other games. Skill is what separates those at the top which is what a cap would accomplish.
You and I sure.
Most of the “raiders” complaining about M+ having too much good gear already ? I doubt.
But you’d hit an uncrossable ceiling much faster and have nothing left to do than quit.
It’s literally why CMs weren’t really replayable.
Much faster? That’s a bit hyperbolic considering that to really min/max currently you need to be in a Mythic Raid Guild that’s regularly killing the end Bosses AND you get lucky with drops. Are players hitting some mathematical wall currently?
Capping m+ ilvl to 304 would also solve things.
Easy fix. Have raid gear have 10+ item levels in raids.
If they complain now they dont have to do dungeons to raid.
I don’t really like downscaling. Even minor amounts of downscaling feel bad TBH. Do you think raiders would be happy that their sword that they “worked so hard for” from the final boss is not useful for anything? No, they would hate that.
People like getting cool strong loot and using it. The problem in this case is simply there’s an asymmetry in who can get that loot.
Crazy because in final fantasy, where I got to choose my gear each week with the currency I earned while having stress free fun, I had…more fun.
That solves nothing. Tell me you don’t even understand the issue without telling me you don’t understand the issue.
The issue is Mythic raiding is massively more rewarding than high key pushing.
It’s not about the low end.
I think both the low/mid end and the high end have an issue, and they are the inverse of each other.
Blizzards really needs to better align difficulty to rewards.
The mid/low end issue is uncapped valor. An easy fix, since we’re not getting that in a non-meme season.
High end needs gear in the dungeons. Easier to acquire Mythic quality loot so Mythic raiding doesn’t feel mandatory, especially early season.
If you fix the high end, you can also give the Heroic whiners what they want : remove the Great Vault 304s from 15s. But then they’ll realise they just lost their own gravy train.
I can’t believe people are asking Blizz to segregate gear. Sounds awful. Imagine if you like to PvP, M+, and raid. The endless loot in your bags for every setup will be insane. Hard pass.
Not really people already have pvp sets and Raid sets and blizzard can easily accomplish this with gear scaling.
Mythic raider walks into m+ dungeon with Max 311 items, it scales down to 298 which is max with valor upgrades (or 304).
Boom Gear issue solved.
I’m fine w/ mythic raiders having super OP gear for keys. 99.9% of players aren’t going to out push those guys even w/ the same gear anyway. Seems like a needless argument for low end key runners to justify why they are hard stuck barely getting KSM.
People already have 2-3 sets of gear, though. Or more for offspecs.
Yea, mixed from all content. Think about how aids its going to be collecting from each source.
If raids and keys had as good of a system as PvP does it’d probably be fine.