hum, i think that, at the core, she always has been like this. she wants peace to protect her people but has to fight to get it, pretty standard trope.
Any character I’d insert would have a face that looks like it was force fed into a blender.
All these fantastic characters look too fancy.
Exactly how many times has Jaina killed a Horde character in one of Christie golden novels? I can’t remeber one.
The “true core” of Jaina was shattered due to the Horde consistently betraying her trust. Yet Christie Goldens writing some how always has her finding a reason to trust them again without cause. I could believe it if it had been once or even twice however at this point it doesn’t make sense for her to trust working with them at all.
In saying that I’m not expecting her to be bathing in the blood of horde children. But I would expect her to want the “horde as a faction” destroyed as they cannot be trusted, not genocide but stop them from being a threat.
What are you talking about, Tides of war goes is basically all about him reaching out to the Horde to make peace. He has to convince other members of the Alliance to give the Horde a chance. He doesn’t get upset that his friend Calia is killed, doesn’t want revenge. He is also willing to risk the lives of his own people on the off chance it might lead to peace.
At no point do they bring up the fact that his father had warned the Horde that they would end them if they fought with out honor. At No point does Anduin and genn discuss the fact Sylvanas was trying to capture Eyir and get Valkyr and what that might mean for his people. Never crosses his mind that he might have to start a war to protect his people.
Look I get you want to be the Morally right faction Zerde but it doesn’t make for a compelling war story when once faction is spending more time saving trying to save its enemies from themselves.
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well the fact that baine saved her life and the life of derek could be the reason why she is willing to stop.
before going for baine she thinks that baine is the last chance for that, she certanly doesn’t trust any other at that point.
it is also establishied that the alliance stand no chance vs the naga alone.
i would like to think that,even if she works with them temporaly (like in nazjatar) is not that she trust in the horde as a organization but rather on the person who saved her life and brother.
and the fact that they have a goal in common vs azshara and sylvanas.
so maybe, she is just using them so they fight each other and be able to win the war with less casualities?
but i can’t really tell if my theory is correct or not since the story is not over yet.
other than that, you are probably correct that either she or anduin is her self insert, i can’t really know because i don’t know golden in person.
That’s a weird thing to say given pacifism in fiction is usually taken up by male characters.
Baine never saved her life. She knew Derek was probably a trap as soon as she saw him. All he did was save Derek, who is still an Undead and possibly mind controlled
Again with no context, he and his people happily supported Sylvanas invasion of nightelves and Theramore. He has only proven a Spinless wimp that goes along with his warchief until they go to far. Just because he does one good thing does not wash the blood from his hands.
Only because they let the remains of the Zandalar fleet live, If they didn’t they wouldn’t been chasing the Horde into a trap.
That is my point though, The writer has to force the character to fight along allies that have failed her in the past. Why would she trust Thrall to have her back when she begged him to help her defend her home or stop Garrosh and said no. Not to mention the last time she saw him or baine(prior to him return her brother) was broken shore where she was furious they had been left for dead by them and wanted to go to war with the Horde.
Why would she trust working with Saurfang who was the mastermind of the invasion of the nightelves and seems so eager to die with Honor he is willing to wage war on innocent people.
The writer is so desperate to have Jaina be a good guy that she has to consistently force the narrative to make jaina Neutral again.
in tides of war, if baine didn’t told her about the attack on theramore, she would be probably dead or captured, it was only with the reinforcements that jaina bring to defend the place that they could repel the land invasion, and even if she somehow managed to repel the first attack the mana bomb would have dropped anyway,without rhonin to save her.
baine saved her life. and also did it with derek (probably)
i mean this is partially true, but in war of thorns baine was send to silithus, he didn’t even knew about the invasion on the nelfs.
as for the tauren support on sylvanas, and him, i think that is more on the fact that they have no other choice or be at the mercy of a very angry alliance.
i think that is more than just black and white, he, as leader of his people have a responsabily with their factions, but that doesn’t mean that he doesn’t do other “questionable acts” that go agaisn’t their faction.
like him warning jaina about the attack, or jaina giving him gold to defend thunder bluff from magatha at a time that garrosh and the horde were attacking the nelfs.
or derek itself.
if you think about it they have things in common and understand each other. or that is what i get from them.
actions that goes beyond than just alliance or horde.
i don’t think that would make much of a difference really, the only reason why we managed to defeat azshara in the first place is because she let us, like really in the entire nazjatar is show how powerful she is that could instantly kill us if she wanted.
Say that we destroyed the remains of the zandalari fleet… i think that is safe to assume that the naga would have destroyed ours either way, also, status quo.
this actually never happened, she never begged him to defend theramore. when thrall finds out about the attack,it was already destroyed.
the only think that i can think of is anduin influence, we know that they spoke about broken shore and we also know that anduin and jaina talked, but this is more headcannon than anything.
well, like i said probably anduin he says “he is the honor of the horde” blah blah blah. and he released him in the first place.
but i do agree that we should have more reactions of alliance characters to saurfang released.
maybe, i personally feel like is one of the ways that blizzard will end the faction war, they have to end it someday.
and one way is either stop making the characters warmongers that continue the conflict or just making the story so painful bad that we wish that we never have this mess ever again, or probably both.
anyway, i am sorry if i went off the rails of the topic.
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Yes they want to end the Conflict by making these self insert characters savior of both the Horde and alliance against all reasonable logic.
There is no reasonable way at this point to end logically and have both factions standing
exactly,
Just wait for Anduin talk Tyrande down from her vengeance seeking with soothing coo’s.
or Anduins bones to become so infused with the light and tingly he heals azeroth with the light, becoming one with the titan, then forbids any fighting on himself
Dont you know she already got her vengence lol
Varian ended up a decent character, but the issue with him is at the start. He comes out of no where, and developed at the expense of established characters. That is a cardinal sin that’s usually the first part of a Mary Sue’s arc. They wanted Varian to be at the center of all things Alliance, and didn’t care about the collateral damage that action brought.
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funny considering one of the recent cinematics adress this “alliance, horde is always the same” is almost like they finally realize that this faction war clown fiesta has to end.
there is no reasonable logic where the horde continues to exist after all the crap they have done while the alliance has like 10 demigods in their roster holding back or would be destroying them left and rigt.
oh wait, we unleashed 2 of our most powerful characters vs nathanos but apparently it wasn’t enough.
i mean,that is why faction wars are such cancer because of this plot armor and status quo.
this entire war is complete nonsense in the first place so of course that we are going to have a stupid ending. a bad story can only have a bad ending. and that is not because of the “self inserts”
is simply because these writters are complete garbage that ruins our factions and characters.
what would be impressive is if after this story ends we actually have something left that we could more or less enjoy or say “that wasnt the best story, lets just skip this chapter and move on”
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This war could have been far better written if we didn’t have characters like these forcing the Alliance to play neutral.
Anduin was such a stupid character to be leading a faction that is supposed to have a narrative about war. He has essentially made it so the Alliance cannot be taken seriously as a threat to the horde.
If they had both factions actively fighting each other to the point it was going to mean mutual destruction it would have been far more satisfying when BOTH sides decide that enough is enough and decide to stop. Not just the Alliance deciding to let the Horde of the hook for the Umpteenth time.
Anduin would have been fine as a side character Neutral character trying to get both factions to stop but instead he was the leader of The Allaince. It ruined the story as the writer wouldn’t let him get his hands dirty at all. Jaina as well was supposed to be a WARbringer yet her entire narrative is her deciding war is not the way and to forgive the Horde because of the Writers direction.
I’m not against the War narrative ending, I’m against it ending in such an unsatisfying way that it isn’t really resolved.
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He didn’t “come out of nowhere”. In the RTS, he was the son of King Lane that Garona murdered and he traveled to Lordaeron as a refugee when Stormwind Keep was burned under the protection of Lothar who was his guardian until his death in the Second War.
At the start of Vanilla he was the missing King and it was revealed that Onyxia in the guise of Katherine Prestor was responsible for his disappearance and captivity with the Defias.
So he had history as both an onscreen character in the RTS and an offscreen missing king (With Bolvar acting as regent) during Vanilla.
So hardly a character “inserted out of nowhere” as you seem to think.
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He absolutely did. He was a background character until Blizzard decided that they want a Human Thrall and swept everyone off the table to make room for him in the spotlight. They churned out media starring him in a short time, trying to make up the the lack of him previously. Nathanos is going through the same overexposure method that Varian did back then.
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The problem is not exactly being a self insert. It’s that Nathanos is an enfuriating character who spits on your face everytime he opens his mouth like an edgy teenager trying to overcompensate to look manly for his ‘‘waifu’’ and he started to gain power and status out of nowhere, like who the hell even remembers him before Legion? Exactly.
Also the fact the guy who wrote him that powerful is ‘‘shiping’’ him with his ‘‘waifu’’ is a bid weird…
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that’s why i like him though. he’s funny.
me i do it’s me
I’m fine with self inserts if they are just questgiver or minor characters with 1 arc or 2 during the leveling zone but if the self insert is a main character you got a mary/gary sue instead.
Just look at Thrall nobody calls him out for picking Garrosh, instead everyone kiss his feets and praises him everytime he speaks. I’m tired of him being represented as the most awesome/holy thing that ever happened to the horde, the same with current Jaina being the pet/avatar of Golden now with having her being showed to our faces 24/7
Thrall was the best thing that happened to the Horde, though.
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