Ehhhhh, the super-special-unique human man who is the only human to ever join X elite elven group and who then falls in love with the most epically beautiful/amazing/bada$$ elf woman is a trope as old as Tolkien. Blightcaller’s special affinity for elves and his relationship with Sylvanas is the MOST self-inserty thing about him. I would like him better if he were just another snarky, nihilistic Forsaken.
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But you’re leaving out the part where they’re both brutally murdered and have to deal with their lives as undead husks of what they once were.
It’s a trope with a twist, and in my opinion it’s good.
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I dont hate Nathanos bc he snarks at my human DK, that only makes sense since we’re on different factions.
I hate Nathanos bc he throws shade at my orc shaman, a character who should be on par with rexxar in terms of reputation and many leagues above a dude with a bow in terms of strength (while his biggest feat of power is nailing sylvanas when they were alive).
Mind you, he throws shade not bc he has a legit bone to pick with the horde player and their mercenary ways or our brute force approach to solving everything- but rather just because he can and, as the Warchief’s boy toy, im forced to be silent and put up with him.
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Thrall is fine. He does not suck up to the Alliance, he seeks compromise with them and if they don’t comply, THEN he gives them war. Thrall is MORE than reasonable as a leader, we’re not throwing shade at Thrall.
I’m simply inquiring the logic behind peoples’ general disdain to the idea of Nathanos inheriting the Forsaken after Sylvanas inevitably loses.
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banged* rhonin has annoyed his last visitor to Dalaran. He blowed up.
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Nathanos conceptually is fine. He was a champion of Lordaeron in life; he was truly betrayed by the Alliance when they attempted to assassinate him; he does (at the very least) seems invested in the future of the Forsaken (if nothing else, his creation of the Human/Forsaken Dark Rangers, and his clear assumptions that he expects Sylvie’s vision of the future to INCLUDE both him and them shows that). On an architectural level, Nate does represent the Forsaken people fairly well.
However, concept only goes so far … and execution is REALLY important. I don’t hold Darkshore against Nate (ANY of our reps thrown into that situation would have ended with a similar result) … what I do hold against him is that despite being a fairly good representation of WHAT the Forsaken people are … that representation means squat as long as he’s being written as nothing but an accessory to Sylvanas (who conceptually represents the Forsaken rather poorly).
Long story short … Self Inserts are not bad, in fact as a conceptual writing trope they’re perfectly fine (and serviceable). What makes them a problem is how they’re used. Thrall and Varian for the most part are rather good self-inserts (over all); Nathanos is certainly not atm…
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Nathanos has always been a huge jerk, so that part didn’t really have any impact to me when seeing him as a character given prominence in the story.
That said, I definitely do get some self insert vibes, when you compare the character’s recent dialogue to Steve’s kind of creepy twitter commentary.
Pretty much. Loads of great fictional characters are the sum of their creator’s life experiences. It’s just a lot more contemptible in, say, a fairly shallow fantasy setting where modelling a canon character after yourself and giving them a bunch of “cool” traits (power, vanity, a hot elf girlfriend) is really just self-indulgence.
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Wanna subvert the creepy twitter commentary, make it a Red Herring and have even Nate get to a point where he turns on his Banshee Queen.
He DOES have the potential to be a good replacement for Sylvanas as the Forsaken’s leader … if he gets some of the wind knocked out of his sails alongside that dogmatic loyalty of his. It would certainly knock out two of the more irritating things about Nate being a self-insert (him being with Danuser’s waifu, so thus Danuser is the hubby of his fictional waifu) … and Nate’s arrogance due to his unshakable belief in his Banshee Queen.
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As others have said, it’s not being a self insert that makes people hate him. It’s being a poorly written self insert. He’s a master archer, obnoxious edgelord and being built up as Sylvanas’ main squeeze. This is a fanfiction writer being given the reigns over the story. I see them trying to do more with him with the whole “even he has standards” thing where he’s increasingly balking at the orders she gives and I hope they follow through with it and give him some actual personality.
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On a somewhat related point: I RP my Forsaken toon as being supremely annoyed that he has to take orders from Nathanos. My character, by this point, is an extremely powerful warlock that has been fighting on behalf of the Forsaken and the wider Horde for years. Traveling across the world, through time, and to other planets for the various Warchiefs. Nathanos, otoh, is a guy with a bow and arrow who sat on his farm in the Plaguelands doing nothing. But since he’s Sylvanas’ plaything, he gets his body restored to near perfect condition and is basically the #2 in Forsaken society. My guy is still a disgusting, decrepit corpse who’s treated like a flunky by said #2.
He’d regret the loss of Sylvanas, but he’d be glad if Nathanos were killed off.
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I’ve said it before but his snark and a-holery has started to grow on me. I kinda like the fact that he doesn’t kiss my butt 24/7. I’ll almost feel bad when the time comes to loot him for shinies. Almost.
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It’s worked well for Ed Greenwood.
I dont hate the guy over all as far as the self inserts with windrunners go he id the more annoying of them. Still i mesn he at least has a personality i am just kinda meh on him over all.
His snark made sense in vanilla and cata. I can even understand his arrogance during legion. But blizzard overdoes things, and made him annoying.
There’s a balance between not worshipping the player, and not acknowledging that we’re both powerful and famous. He’s not Saurfang levels of famous or skilled, so it’s hard to buy into his condescension.
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I kind of just like to imagine that he’s that perpetual old man screeching at those darned kids get off his lawn. They guy is effectively an eternal curmudgeon, which I have long since grown to find endearing. Every once in a while he’ll give me some half-hearted, extremely reluctant compliment for my good work … and it feels so much more earned than when all the other reps are kissing my butt for every tiny little “champion” thing I do for them. 
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The funny thing is that at the end of Stormheim he’s actually shook when you save the Forsaken outpost from Greymane and gives you some props. But I guess the shock wore off and he went back to his old cranky self by the time BFA rolls around lol.
Well to be fair the Alliance has its self insert character of Jaina being written by Christie Golden. She has continually pushed this character to Neutral pacifist since Tides of war where her direction in game had always be towards aggressive to the Horde since Theramore
Anduin as well has been also been written in a way to suit the authors direction. Initially we were told anduin would be attempting to fill his fathers shoes and would be more aggressive to prove himself however he has been very much the oppisite. The writer has even posted on Twitter that she likes that hes a Pacifist and not a traditional aggressive male.
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This is what I’ve been expecting since the expansion launch. He’s questioned her or hesitated three or five times now.
What? What? What? Even in tides of war she ended up on the at point where she would fight if needed but not be the agressor. Even the purge has Jaina giving them a second chance. The “true core” of Jaina has been always been a character that is devoted to the Alliance and while she wont start wars, she will definately end them.
Ugh, as mentioned, even in Tides of War(by the said same author) Anduin is not a pacifist! As for not being a traditionally aggressive male, I am all for it. Garrosh is as close to that archetype as possible.
We both dislike the Horde, but I do think there is a “right” way to fight them. Anduin and Jaina are doing there best to get there.
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