By that argument, Blizzard should never introduce a new character, or bring one out of the background. Varian’s dissappearance and return was a key element of the Onyxia back story.
Nathanos again is a major part of Sylvannas’ story, as the only person that Sylvannas really seems to trust his placement in the Sylvannas storyline makes sense. And he does have provenance as an outdoor raid boss that would frequently lead to world PVP back in the old days.
Both of these characters pretty much date back tot he beginning of the present game and beyond.
No. It’s all in the author’s skill if a character, self-inserted or not, is trash or a success. Also the term of self-insert is quite misleading. A true self-insert would be something akin to an isekai novel. Other than that they are just characters an author creates. Some may be more developed or thought out than others but nothing more or less. A poorly written character will be trash but a well written one will excel. That’s just how things in writing go.
The definition of it is never that literal. The people who write the self insert style of character rarely lack the subtlety to just plonk themselves into the story wholesale. Doesn’t change the fact they latch onto a character and project themselves onto it and write it as such.
Strangely, I’ve been against the Faction Conflict for ages.
Its a weak narrative, built upon a pathetically weak foundation, designed almost exclusively to justify PvP on a story level in vanilla (and never truly evolved beyond that). On top of this, the power imbalance between the two factions is far, FAR too extreme to even justify the mess we find ourselves in now. I will never forgive Blizzard for once again forcing the Horde to again be the aggressors in a war we are constantly told we could never win (unless the Alliance was handicapped both literally and ideologically). It truly is a nightmare …
New characters are introduced all the time without the pampering and extra material Varian and Nathanos got. They got that materiel because they were pushed into the spotlight to be a part of the faction identity, and to make up for the lack of a proper build up like other characters get. Varian and Nathanos is how you DON’T introduce a new major character.
And that is a problem how? Characters, especially those who were not a mainstay of the RTS usually get books/comics to flesh them out. Vol’jin got an entire book about him, I dont see you complaining. Or hell, the night elven trinity had an entire trilogy dedicated to fleshing them out.
Varian’s introduction was fine. Especially considering as a comic it meant he was not beholden to kissing every Alliance backside(a point I am sure you would be complaining about now).
Its forced and lacks natural build up. A literal “who” is suddenly everywhere. Often at the expense of established characters, since we know Blizzard can’t establish a new character that’s marked for the spotlight without taking from others. I can’t stand Nathanos because he is EVERYWHERE! Varian wasn’t as bad, but it was still jarring for everyone to stop functioning and make him the center of the alliance.
And Varian got several books on top of a comic extolling how awesome he is. To be fair, a book by Michael Stackpole is worth like… 7 Knaak books. Vol’jin gained quite a bit of depth and didn’t show up any faction leaders to show how “awesome” he is.
The entirety of Tide of War. Hell, she was still pretty upset about things in Warcrimes and certainly fought those who supported Garrosh.
First, she “trusted” Baine if for no other reason than because she brought his undead brother back to her, even when he knew Sylvanas would kill him for it. Even I know I don’t particularly have anything against Baine.
The Nazj questline ended with Jaina being adamant that she is willing to work with the Horde because right now bigger things are trying to kill us all. But she mention, several times I might add, if the Horde interfered in anyway she would not hesitate to fight them. As it is right now killing Sylvanas will probably end the war.
I quite remember tides of War. One of the insults Garrosh hurled at Varian was how Anduin was not fit to lead because he thought he was a pacifist. Varian made sure to point out Garrosh was wrong on that front. As for Calia, Anduin ended that book pretty upset about how the whole thing went down.
We know Anduin reprimanded Genn for what happened. I assume the reason Genn got off with only a warning is precisely because he found out Sylvanas was planning on capturing a Val’kyr.
I’m not particularly interested in saving the Horde or even helping them most of them time. But I an certainly interested in repaying debt to people who help me. More importantly, the sooner the Horde turns on Sylvanas the sooner I get to put the pointy end of my weapon on her skull.
Nathanos was a character who even back in Vanilla had some relevance. Anyone who was anyone who actually got to level cap knew who he was. At worse, Nathanos obtained a large amount of lore this expansion considering he is pretty much Sylvanas stand in for every important thing that happened in Bfa.
As for Varian, I dont feel like a debate right now about the high king, but he only ever got center stage during Mist. And considering he didn’t get much, if any lore in WoD and promply died in Legion, you should see why he got as much lore as he did.
Varian had one book dedicated to him. Tides of War and most definitely Warcrimes had him as a support character at best and not the center of the story.
Similarly, Vol’jin was also part of those two books in a support fashion.
I think you missed the point of the Crossroads cinematic. The entire Nazjtar story accumulated in Jaina forgiving the horde for past transgressions and wants to fight to protect them not against Nzoth, Not against Azshara but from their own warchief. People they were fight along side up to a few weeks ago, in killing her people in Kul Tiras.
The writer is forcing Jaina to forgive actions that she logically shouldn’t just so we can spend 8.2.5 hand war resources to the tauren in prep for siege of Thunder Bluff.
You seem to want the Alliance to be a bland neutral faction without any interesting story, with one dimensional characters with no depth.
Anduin and Jaina aren’t going to be good characters unless the writer makes their motivations make sense, and Golden seems to refuse as she cannot make her pet characters do anything conceivably bad
I don’t see her forgiving anyone, at best she acknowledges neither sides has been exactly the shining beacon of morality. As for fighting along side people who weeks ago were our enemies, well we have been doing that for a while now. Don’t forget the Dark Irons were enemies a few years ago, the void elves were blood elves who left the Alliance. That is not to mention the Death Knights, warlocks, demon hunters etc who ended up helping us.
My point is WoW, has certainly never shied from the concept that your enemy today, might end up being a comrade tomorrow
Oh, you don’t know me very well. I am still quite interested in killing Horde, certainly those I deem irredeemable. But at the same time I am not interested in the Alliance ending up with the villains.
Anduin and Jaina’s motivations have always been peace. Admittedly both are now forced into the oxymoron state of having to fight for peace. Alliance characters, going as far back as say Turalyon, have always done what is right. Hell, for all Turalyon’s racist bluster at the time he still let the orcs who surrendered live.
So they are being written to be pacifists then? I mean they are literally being written to accept peace with the Horde at any cost.
I mean the alliance was weeks away from winning the war before there was a Civil war. Why do we need to save them? If we just let the horde destroy it self all the better the Alliance can then just focus on N’zoth and clean up what remains of the Horde.
Back when Jaina was being written be the game writers as aggressive towards the Horde she was never written in wanting to kill them all. She wanted to dismantle the Horde which was reasonable considering what the Horde has done, I want that Jaina back.
Turaylon had the Old horde imprisoned in camps, he didn’t let them roam free to become a threat again. At this point i would think he regrets letting them live. especially considering what happen to his home and his people at the hands of the Horde while he was gone.
And yet we saw how Blizz decided to use Vol’jin … as little more than a placeholder Warchief until they throw the least representative leader of the Horde in as his replacement; to justify this awful Faction Conflict storyline. The troll that literally survived getting his throat being slit with a blade coated in poison meant to neutralize Troll regeneration, the apex of Shadow Hunters, gets killed by trash mob #425 to build up the Horde getting villain batted again.
Man … I have no idea what Blizz has planned for Jin … but from what I see right now, so much for the future of Troll kind being in Vol’jin’s hands like Sen’jin believed.
Preaching to the choir here. Vol’jin was criminally underused. Meanwhile Varian needed to die because he couldn’t show up without making everyone dumb by proximity or make the story revolve around him.