Are they really as bad as people seem to think on these forums?
So the topic of Nathanos being set up to lead the Forsaken after Sylvanas’s inevitable defeat at the end of BfA, has cropped up on these forums a few times now, but the general consensus is usually negative. The most common issue people seem to have with Nathanos is that he is Steve Danuser’s self-insert, but I honestly fail to see how that’s a bad thing.
I mean, some of WC’s greatest characters are self-inserts, Varian and Thrall being among them serving as Metzen’s inserts in both factions. Thrall in particular being around since WC3 and was held in high regard up until his stint as “green Jesus” in Cataclysm. Varian had a much more mixed reception, some people really liking his aggressive attitude towards the Horde while others didn’t.
So I just really don’t see why a character being the insert of a writer is that bad of a thing, cuz it honestly depends on who that writer is. Someone like Metzen represented alot of elements that makes WC such a great franchise.
It’s an easy thing to roll out when a character feels like the GM playing their own hero.
It isn’t inherently bad, just something that can end in bad results. Nathanos is getting hate because, well, “Oh look, another snarky undead archer who is also a tactical genius that makes everyone else look stupid because reasons. How exciting.” He’s like a Sylvanas placeholder while she’s touring crazy town.
He’s also another snore-worthy addition to the “human male love interest for the impossibly hot and bada$$ elf chick” self-insert subtype, which needs to die a swift and painful death. Seriously, EVERY Windrunner bangs a human dude. It’s so frakking transparent.
I think the Nathanos thing is hilariously overblown/exaggerated and primarily exists as a reason for people to have extra to complain about a character they dislike.
And yes, being a self insert isn’t necessarily bad. But obviously it can come off negatively or give an impression of bias.
I think the main gripe with Nathanos is that he’s held on a pedestal because he’s a self insert (or so people claim).
He survived Tyrandes attack in Darkshore even though she supposedly got a huge power boost. At least to night elf fans, it’s a slap in the face because their “revenge for teldrassil” wasn’t really that awesome. They killed a val’kyr, maybe reclaimed Darkshore and scared off Nathanos.
Personally, though, I’d like him as leader of the forsaken.
sometimes i feel like he says some of the things that the devs think about the playerbase such as.
“how easy these nelfs change loyalty” like dude… it doesn’t make any sense in the first place. why the devs are mocking players like this?
“what are you know, queen of the tree elves? oh no…”
this is like blizzard mocking us for burning teldrassil and at the same time saying that “tyrande got her revenge”.
that whole darkshore fiasco was insanely bad.
he should not have been able to survive some of the two most powerfuls alliance characters one being know for his entangled roots skill.
i don’t think that he is a self insert but certantly sometimes he is the voice of the devs mocking us.
If they actually emulated Whedon maybe the story would be better…
On topic, I don’t think self-inserts via the writers are actually a thing, and it’s mostly played up as a joke. That said, I do believe the writers play favourites with both individual characters, and races. A lot of the dislike for various characters right now stems entirely from the faction war, as well. If they acted similarly, and did similar things, but against an NPC threat? People would love them.
I don’t think self-inserts are necessarily a bad thing, but Nathanos just feels like a mouthpiece to talk up Sylvanas. I don’t hate him by any means, I think his sardonic personality is a unique perspective but if he’s a self-insert… he isn’t a very good one.
I can log into the troll druid alt im leveling and at no point during my leveling experience Thrall will call me a coward for refusing to do his dirty work.
And on my human paladin alt im also leveling Varian wont tell me to go eat a **** just because he’s entitled to do that as my faction leader, and i ,a lowly player, has to drink piss and pretend to like it.
In all honesty. Self inserts are absolutely fine. It is how they are handled that people have a bloody issue with.
Thrall is a good example of how to handle a self insert. They made sure Thralls power and respect was earned. Not simply handed to them like Nethanos was.
Yeah blight caller of all the humans with windrunners feels the most forced as he just pops in out of no where abd us super close to her now. The other two at least took some time to actully build some kind of relationship.
People are biased. Nathanos is a Horde character that doesn’t suck up to Alliance (like Thrall) which is why you’ll see so many decrying him for becoming a self insert.
Nevermind his history as the only human farstrider, or any of that. Because he doesn’t kiss the player’s feet, everyone calls him a self insert.
The overblown amount of hate Nathanos gets alway makes me laugh. He is really not that bad at all, he is dismissive and vaguely rude at worst and people act like he spits in your face every time he sees you. I hope he becomes the Forsaken leader after Sylvanas is out of the picture, he is by far the best of the foreseeable options for leader.
Personally? I despise Nathanos, but not just because he’s a self insert. Self inserts can be extremely well done, character wise, like you mentioned with Thrall and Varian. But Nathanos just… isn’t a likeable character for me. He’s smug, irritating and sleazy. Sure, the weird wish-fulfillment thing w/ Sylvanas is… off-putting, but it’s not the main reason I dislike him. It all depends on the character.