Season 4 was worse than I predicted

The problem with the community in this game is deep seated and carries on into even the developers mentality. It creates and fosters an atmosphere of extreme competition and thinking process that equates to stop wasting my time inherent to its design. This is further compounded with a game mode that literally has a timer as well.

In a sense you are always going to be carrying someone in a pug it is inevitable and unavoidable in some sense. Some may have amazing heals/tanking/dps skills but never interrupt or cc. Someone will always come up short somehow. If you do not want to take a risk then simply put you do not PuG.

But even your response proves to me at least this mentality has grown to be common place. It essentially says ā€œGet Lostā€ you donā€™t belong here.

This mentality is antithetical to an mmorpg which ideally would be pulling people together for fun. Itā€™s no wonder so many prefer to play WoW as a single player game nowadays.

There are a number of opportunities for less-skilled players to learn how to play and the fight mechanics: Normal/Heroic dungeons and LFR Raids. For those that go beyond them, thereā€™s now M0.

M+, especially on the first week, operates on the assumption that you know your class and the encounters, and itā€™s frustrating to everyone else in the group if one player is dead weight. Itā€™s no longer for teaching.

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Iā€™m not sure why you got that out of it, but that is absolutely incorrect. I donā€™t want to play with people who do not put in an effort to succeed or improve. I didnā€™t say you had to be amazing or even good, just that you have to put in an effort and try.

This is false. As long as you are able to succeed at the content you are playing, I wouldnā€™t consider you a carry. If you miss an interrupt, thatā€™s fine. You donā€™t have to play perfectly or make zero mistakes to succeed. Iā€™m not sure why youā€™re acting like they do.

I have been in many pugs groups that had zero carries and all of us made mistakes during the run, even myself. You donā€™t seem to be understanding the point of what we are saying.

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Most of these teach almost next to nothing.

Also M+2 isnā€™t some masters level skill check. Itā€™s basically low level keys even before the change.

Part of working together is knowing mechanics and knowing your class kit. Itā€™s just as toxic for a player to join a group not knowing the mechanics.

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But how is content being gatekept?

What do you consider ā€œlow-level keysā€?

Doing a +2 now in 480 gear is roughly equivalent to a S3 +15 (being generous), and the super-duper-casuals were definitely not attempting +15s on week 1.

Some people have to do to learn and canā€™t just read everything and fully understand it in one shot. People learn differently. I can only learn by doing, even watching a guide on youtube isnā€™t enough for me. I have to actually see it, be there, and experience it. Even then Iā€™m sure Iā€™m doing something wrong somehow and not fully optimal somehow. Even after reading a guide or watching one I can forget things, does this mean I shouldnā€™t be allowed to do the content? Of course not!

I canā€™t read a class guide and fully get it in one shot. Itā€™ll help but it doesnā€™t mean Iā€™ll remember everything for any given situation on the spot. I will fail it is going to happen.

I think this is acceptable and totally fine. Therefore by extension Iā€™d assume anyone queueā€™ing up for this content has put in some effort most of the time. If I were in MDI Iā€™d expect perfection and full knowledge of multiple classes, routes, and roles. If I were pushing for the .1% with a team Iā€™d feel this way as well. But for low level keys I think most are learning and itā€™s completely fine and acceptable. As well as for M0 content especially with no timer or affixes.

Failing is fine because you have to fail to succeed.

True and thatā€™s why players should progress through the difficulties but thatā€™s not what happens. They want to skip to the best rewards.

Iā€™d also add that Pugging isnā€™t the time to learn. Run the content with your friends first. Donā€™t waste the time of strangers.

I mean this makes sense but Iā€™ve failed to get friends to play WoW and most of the WoW players I run into are vastly different in mentality to me personally. If I join a guild Iā€™m just joining randoms anyway with the benefit maybe weā€™ll be in discord.

Iā€™m personally willing to take the risk cause games are also not important and completely a waste of time.

Iā€™m willing to waste your time to learn. To me this isnā€™t a bad thing but a brave thing.

lolwut.

As others said, thatā€™s more toxic than hypothetical gatekeeping.

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I mean thatā€™s gaming. We waste our time learning to be better and itā€™s part of the fun. When you pug you arenā€™t recruiting a free mercenary to help carry you as thereā€™s paid groups for that.

LOL and Iā€™m willing to kick you for wasting my time.

BTW why would anyone play WOW alone? There are so many great RPGā€™s to scratch that itch. The only thing WOW has going for it is the social aspect.

I personally liked that change and its not impossible, my best was a +7, ye its hard but if everyone does right you can do it

for new players or returning ones, m0 being hard and relevant is good, before that i would just blast the bosses and never learn the mechanic or anything from that dungeon, now you have time to learn and get to know the dungeon, which greatly revitalizes groups for m0 and introduction of dungeons being cool without just rush and zerg them

Hey thatā€™s your choice. I play alone cause the people I play games with donā€™t really stick with WoW, or even like it, and left it. Iā€™ve met some fun people to play with in the past, but Iā€™ve also been in guilds that were just waaaaay different than me and I didnā€™t fit with.

It just is what it is and Iā€™m fine with playing alone if I have to. I havenā€™t really met people who just chill across many games and play WoW though, completely different personality types it seems.

Peak ilvl from season 2 into season 3 was around 437-440 give or take.

Would you invite someone with 440 ilvl into a +12 last season?

People by large donā€™t know the encounters the first week in m+. After seeing the boss once, then it becomes an execution check.

Some old revamped dungeon for example (like throne of the tides.) People will be blinding it for the most part.

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Was doing 20s at 450 why not?

A lot of us are willing to kick you out of the group.

The beauty of m+ is that you canā€™t replace people.