I feel like it’s more that some people don’t listen or pay attention to changes.
There are a number of players who would have started out on 4’s or 6’s last season (which is totally fine by the way). But instead they are jumping into 12’s and getting destroyed. They should be starting in M0.
Starting in a 12 in last season’s gear is challenging for a number of people. A lot of people don’t actually pay attention to patch notes and just blindly go in thinking things are the same.
I think you’re missing the point on several issues.
- They can get decent gear in M0.
- In the previous system, there was level bloat and many key levels were barely run as there was no benefit.
- People going into +2s and not expecting a +12 difficulty from last season is a player issue.
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Yeah, no. I’d have normally started at 2s and built my own keys up so that I’m not risking other people’s keys. Like I did last season where I ended doing 14s and 15s after coming back late.
I feel like 2s are more comparable to a 14-15 of last season personally. They are as hard right now as dungeons with full affixes were last season. Maybe just a bit more punishing from my perspective.
Fwiw I started with 0’s in S4 and I can confidently say the gap between heroics and 0s is a chasm compared to what it previously was. There wasn’t even a gap between heroics and 2s before. Now it’s massive.
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That’s changed. Mythic dungeons now cover a larger footprint, basically anything 10 or below in the old system and don’t have a timer or affixes to deal with. These also give loot equivalent to a +10 in the old system.
That is the new entry point into the mythic dungeon system and get people used to content that is harder than heroic dungeons. If people weren’t comfortable clearing +12’s in the first week of S3, they shouldn’t be doing +2s now.
That doesn’t mean they are bad, that is just literally how the difficulty scaling works.
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Imo I’d have it like this for no timer no affix:
Mythic 0, Mythic + no timer, no affix.
Drop M0 down a bit in hp/damage and maybe keep M+1 up a smidge. Maybe even:
M0
M+
M+2
But these aren’t keys just an option to up the difficulty and reward one notch with no timer and affix each time. And then when you hit +2 you move up to Keys for more challenge.
The majority of the community does not remember the mechanics and they don’t bother to search up a guide.
Before, you can get away with doing a +2 with no effort but now thats not the case
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I made sure to go back through and do my research. It doesn’t really help when other people haven’t though.
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And that’s valid. There’s nothing wrong with starting at a low key and building it up. Currently, the M0 dungeons will give loot of a +10 in the old system but without the affixes and timers. I imagine there is going to be a larger gap between heroic and M0 because of this, but I haven’t tried M0 yet this season.
So far I’ve completed +4s this week as a dps and as a tank. They felt challenging, particularly on some tyrannical bosses that are hateful, but I’d say probably on par for a 14 last season. Both of my characters ended last season a 486, so my gear was good coming into this and it helps.
I’ve also been in groups that have failed 2’s and 3’s. Mostly it’s because some people were ignoring mechanics or pulling 60k dps. Like one dungeon had a 483 fury warrior with the legendary axe and they pulled 80k dps over the course of an entire dungeon. That is vastly underperforming for a 12 equivalent. There was a 480 frost mage pulling 60k dps single target in one of the failed runs. There was a demonology warlock who died 15 times in a run because they would not move out of AoE circles, even ones that had one shot them previously.
I suppose that might be anecdotal evidence, but the people who have been failing in my runs are just not doing mechanics or don’t know their class/spec well enough. 480 ilevel is definitely enough to clear +2s currently, they were just failing for other reasons.
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I mean… i think they hit it straight on.
A 2 is this seasons 12, which is about 30% more difficult than last seasons 12
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And on Tuesday a 2 was this seasons 10 which is about 30% more difficult than last seasons 10.
People are clearly much better at rationalizing than they are at being rational. We’re just kind of updating things as we experience them and then saying “it was meant to be this way” as though we are actually privy to the knowledge required to make such a claim.
Well, if people say that theyre entirely wrong, its always been clear that m0 is 10
Who cares? You been posting that same nonsense for years, we get it dude you dont like mythic plus. Wah wah no one cares
Thanks for letting me know.
I don’t believe you. The new difficulty curve is different but it’s not what you claim. You’re just lying for drama.
This new system will weed out the horrible players who have total disregard for learning to play their class or learning dungeon mechanics. Once you get above a +2 and +3 you don’t have to worry about these players anymore.
Idc anymore. Show me hard data and evidence. I’m tired of both sides saying “ oh lol just side step all the one shot swirlies lel” and the “I don’t wanna move from one swirlie and a swipe waah.” Idc show me the average and numbers. Ur anecdotes mean nothing to the average player, play a resto druid and you’ll instantly understand this difference between pug or teammates. 
Someone in one thread the other day was asking if players are still gatekeeping content, and this definitely proves some people definitely are.
Imo this mentality doesn’t belong in an mmorpg as it asks people to work together and not against each other.
How do you gatekeep content? Every one of us is able to do every bit of the same content that everyone else can do. Me not wanting to play with players who disregard learning to play their class and disregard learning dungeon mechanics doesn’t mean I’m gatekeeping them, it means I don’t want to play with them. Those players are not entitled or allowed to play in my group.
If you’re willing to learn then we can play together, but many players aren’t willing to learn.
I think this just proves M+ made the community worse off.
I would disagree. I’m perfectly fine helping people and working with them to get better if they are putting in effort to get better. If they do not bother putting in even a minor effort, I don’t want to carry them.
I’m fine helping people who are trying. I don’t want to carry dead weight. I don’t think that’s controversial or in anyway makes the community worse.
The same applies to WoW in general though. I help people with crafting, figuring out work orders, quests/achievements, etc. If people are trying, I will help them. If they aren’t, I won’t waste my time.
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Yep, this is probably how most of us feel.
Players who expect others to suffer due to them refusing to be anything other than dead weight make the community worse.
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