How are you and Bepples able to keep up with the same argument in two separate posts?
You two have been going back and forth on same subject for days now while doing this in two posts about SV hunters. How do have anything left to say?
Youâre just stuck on repeat now: apparently what I say is automatically wrong because Iâve only played SV for 2 hours instead of 200. That might work for you personally, but itâs evident to everyone else how youâre not actually responding to the arguments at hand. So Iâll repeat:
This still isnât proving any of my arguments wrong.
2 Likes
No one has to prove your arguments wrong, because theyâre based on opinion, which is neither right nor wrong. You fundamentally believe the hunter at its core requires a ranged weapon. We get it. We also get this is nothing more than your opinion. Ironically enough, the devs of this game disagree with you.
3 Likes
its been across like 9 threads I just dont bother with all of them since I dont have all day here. Hes also stalking my youtube channels too. Hes in love with me.
so you been doing what this entire time since legion?
Oh so NOW you have played. Before it was, nEvEr ToUcH iT sInCe ItS cOnTaMiNaTeD. How convenient. You seem more concerned with other people validating your opinions on here than actually understanding the very thing you dont like. Im here for you little guy. We will get through this together.
3 Likes
If thatâs what you think thenâŚthatâs up to you. But keep in mind that the topic of RSV has nothing to do with the class design we saw prior to WotLK, as before then, we did not have multiple defined playstyles(or core specs for that matter).
Canât speak for Bepples here, but the fact that youâre saying this about me, proves that you actually donât.
You enjoying current SV means ⌠to me. The reason I continue these discussions with you is because you insist on posting arguments that in no way reflect reality, and the historical design of the class, as proven by your posts as well as much of what youâve been saying or showing in your videos lately, you donât care about making an objective analysis or presentation of the class.
The second someone refutes, or call you out on, your nonsense arguments, you immediately fall back on âIâm just memeing/trollingâ. Or, you respond with a non-answer, or you just ignore them and then continue to spout the same nonsense all over again.
Again, just to be clear, I donât give to fizzes about what you enjoy playing or not. If you think thatâs why weâre having these discussions, this just proves how you have no ideaâŚ
Canât speak for everyone on here ofc, but as youâre mostly referring to Bepples here, he have actually tried it, both in Legion, BfA, and in SL.
And like has been said before, if people complain about any aspects involving melee-combat, and how those tie into a hunter spec, thatâs not something that requires in-depth knowledge of how the spec plays. Anyone who bothers to read up on, or remember the design of the class at any point prior to Legion, knows that melee-combat as a primary focus was never a thing before then.
Again, you donât need in-depth knowledge of current SV in order to figure this out.
What am I saying that isnât true then?
Youâre the one who askedâŚ
That is your standard line as soon as someone calls you out on anything you say, yes.
4 Likes
Bepples gonna rage reading that there.
the design you talk of was short lived. It was about as long lived as current day MSV so it doesnt matter.
Heres the thing. I been memeing and acknowledging it since like april when this all started. I even posted a meme video so no its not falling back on anything. Ive made it clear and you dont wanna see whats in front of you.
You lot jumped on me for phrasing the new design. Idk what reality this is buts how this all came to be so. Yes you do care.
funny, hes been on record saying he never has and will never touch it so.
Yes you do. For example the way you two talk of it you just think MSV stays in melee the entire time which is a huge no.
yes but its a gag video. Zero reason to get where we got from that as it was a GAG VIDEO.
So you DID take it seriously. On a hunter meme YouTube channel. A channel where I said spell hunter was viable. LOL dude come on this is embarrassing yourself now.
The current design of MSV has existed for 1.5 expansions. You could stretch that to include the Legion iteration, even though that one was quite different to the current one.
RSV and the playstyle it promoted existed for 4 expansions.
SoâŚno, youâre wrong there. Besides, once again with the non-answer from you.
The only thing anyone should take away from this is that noone should consider anything you say in your more recent arguments, nothing. Which more or less translates to how you actually do believe that RSV was not just MM, that it actually was different from MM(which you have already said before btw).
âŚon his main hunter. I guess you missed that part.
Why in the world would you need in-depth knowledge of how current SV plays in order to figure out that itâs primarily a melee-spec?
Itâs a spec thatâs designed as a damage dealing-spec, to serve as the combat role that is Damage. So, by definition, if you need to fight in melee(even at all) in order to get the most out of the spec as per said combat role, then it IS primarily a melee-spec. No matter if it has abilities that can be used from afar or not.
That depends entirely on what you do, how you choose to play. But again, the spec is designed to fill the role of a damage dealer. And if you want to deal the most damage, you need to stay in melee-range.
Does that mean that you should always stay in melee-range, no matter what you decide to do in this game? No, ofc not. But thatâs not the argument anyway.
When did I ever say that? Correct answer is: I didnât.
I havenât watched your spell hunter-video, so I have no idea what you said in it.
its almost as if its been evolving.
kinda like listening to people who dont even play the spec. Idk why anyone would listen to someone who doesnt major in a specific field they preach about. And im only memeing on you and bepples so.
Because its literally irrelevant.
You dont stay in melee so thats part of the example. This is what im talking about here.
we only really have like what, 2 abilitys that are needed to be in melee? It does matter.
Im aware you did. You pretty much said it yourself.
But you have been aware its existence, and still think I been serious with you. I said like a week ago I havenât taken you seriously. And here you still are. Again man its kind of embarrassing.
I didnât. But congratulations on getting flagged again for violating the CoC.
Is it âjust my opinionâ that SV is the least popular spec in the game and has been either last place or close to it the entire time itâs been melee?
Yes, the most infamously incompetent and inept development team, the same team that managed to run the game into the ground during a global pandemic that has everyone stuck at home and the rest of the video game industry subsequently booming, thought it was a good idea to make Survival melee. Using the argument to authority with an authority with such a rancid track record is an interesting approach, to say the least.
Even so, they still design the class as if ranged weapons are the central element. They just pile on bandaids to try to make SV make sense i.e. Survivalâs use of an animation-only ranged weapon.
Iâve already told you. Iâve played it on test realms.
Ghorak is right. You did not have separate, identifiable playstyles per spec in the Hunter class before WotLK. Classic BM, MM, and SV played mostly the same. The same is true for their BC iterations. It wasnât a priority back then to have a different gameplay approach. You sure think they were different according to your 2019 videos but I wonât even bother asking you to make sense of that because, as we can see, you tend to abruptly and totally flip your opinion on factual issues.
The model of ranged SV with Explosive Shot lasted for 4 expansions, so not quite yet.
Nevertheless its track record in that time speaks for itslef. It was routinely among the most popular specs in the game and that was when the game was in a much healthier and more active state: two of the most well-received and reminisced-about expansions were in that period. Ranged SV will always be associated with a time of general success for the game while melee SV is a microcosm for the gameâs decline. So it could be melee for 8 expansions and it would still be an embarrassing failure to add to Blizzards ever-lengthening list of embarrassing failures post-MoP.
For someone whoâs memeing you a) spend a hell of a lot of effort here and b) really arenât funny.
Yeah âevolvingâ towards just being ranged again, lmao. 3/4 of the spec is ranged including the most iconic and recognisable part, Wildfire Bomb, which never made sense for a melee spec to begin with.
Iâm glad you finally decided to try to name something Iâm wrong about. Too bad it doesnât work. Iâm well aware Survival is mostly ranged abilities and in PvP spends a great deal of time at ranged. That doesnât change what I said, though, which is that Survival is the only Hunter spec with a range-based penalty. The other two Hunter specs are perfectly capable of doing 100% of their damage anywhere from 0-40 yards. Survival is not. Itâs that simple.
You keep doing what a lot of SV Hunters do which is to try to market a clear and objective weakness of Survival as a strength. It doesnât work and to see why it doesnât you can ask yourself one simple question: if we took Survival as it is now, replaced the melee weapon with a ranged weapon, and replaced Raptor Strike, Carve, and Muzzle with ranged equivalents, would the spec be in a better or worse position? Would it be more or less capable and viable?
3 Likes
So dev decisions are gospel whenever they support your stance, and garbage when they donât⌠Thatâs certainly one way to go. Then again, I think at this point given the lengths youâve gone to attack someone in this thread over completely unrelated issues Iâm giving you far too much credit.
1 Like
Literally who cares. Play what you want not what others want. You dont pay anyones sub fee.
- They still collect your money. So run your mouth all you want about them you still paying them then you clown.
- Streamers and cancel culture had a big part in this. The very same people who complained about the lawsuit and aparent treatment of their employes (who for whatever reason just said yeah ima just keep working here) Will buy their clothes from walmart which uses sweatshops, buy from amazon which abuses their employees far more than blizzard alagedly has and support Disney which I dont even have to go there on that one. Dude your just a toxic person. Nobody likes company from people like that mate.
You know that doesnt even count since test realms are just that. Its like getting a mount drop but it doesnt count because its not live. This cant even be real life.
I feel even if it was the most popular spec live, you would still be here complaining about the fact the spec you dont even play nor know how to play isnt using a bow. So literally nothing would change.
MM has it now so go enjoy it. If thats all you care about then I guess MM really is RSV now.
I dont really spend much time here tbh. If im here im usually waiting for Que. Why would I want you to think im funny? You really do smell your own air man. You honestly believe everything revolves around you.
Cool so you have RSV then. GG now grow up already my child.
Im FaR tO eGoTiStIcAl is pretty much what you mean here. Whats your discord?
Hes an example of a typical WoW player. Cant reason with it as it just wants to be angry over nothing and blame everyone else for their own delusions.
Aw, câmon.
The MMâs half-hearted version of Explosive Shot is NOTHING like the old RSV version of Explosive Shot.
As a matter of fact, the Legion version where you had to manually trigger the ânewâ version (for the Meme Spec â I played this in Legion)⌠/shudder
All Iâll say is that on the days I had bad latency⌠yeah, the ânewâ Explosive Shot really sucks.
So this argument holds no water, Iâm afraid.
This might be just another one of his âmemeâ posts that youâre not allowed to criticise because itâs a joke that you just donât get.
When you post multiple inter-contradictory opinions it makes it really easy to just selectively declare any of them to be a joke or a meme on a whim.
2 Likes
Actually, theyâre good decisions if they have merit and theyâre bad decisions if they donât.
Making a spec unique by making it lack core features of the class is immensely stupid regardless of context. If they removed Stalth from a Rogue spec that would be similarly stupid. You make specs unique by making them add to the base class, not take away from it.
Right now you start a Hunter at level 1 with a ranged weapon and youâre asked to throw it away at level 10 if you pick Survival which is one of the most craptastic mistakes in the history of WoW class design. As a result it thematically cements Survival as a handicapped, weaker option so >90% of Hunters unconditionally avoid it.
ANY remotely objective perspective says this is a mistake and it was entirely predictable that it would go wrong in exactly this way (i.e. people predicted this on literal announcement day). The only people who donât think it was a mistake are people who have too much pride invested in the decision to ever admit fault.
P.S. Do note that last paragraph applies perfectly to a whole list of bad Blizzard decisions since WoD such as the recent covenant swapping debacle.
I did play what I want and then that spec was removed from the game.
Yes because I still care about the game and want to see it get better: Iâm just realistic about it. This game will NOT get better with the current leadership (Hazzikostas and co). Too many failed chances.
Literally stopped reading the paragraph beyond this out of pure cringe. No, itâs no one elseâs fault that Blizzard are up âpoopâ creek without a paddle. Itâs their own garbage leadership and decision making that led to this: from their problems within WoW to their problems as a workplace.
What, you think they remade the spec halfway through or something? I did a lot of the initial testing for SV on the 8.0 beta because I was one of the first people on this subforum with an invite. The version I played at the start was nearly identical to what was released. The major changes were the addition of Carve and Wildfire Infusion which I did also test later.
But Iâve been clear the entire time that I believe anytime spent on this spec is time wasted because it has no future and Iâve been proven right on that every time. Iâm not going to waste time marketing Blizzardâs failed spec ideas on their behalf like so many others in the WoW community. Survival is a dead end and itâs time to accept that rather than entertaining the delusion any further.
Who knows, but it never will be a popular spec for the simple fact that itâs entire identity is being a Hunter but worse so almost no one wants to play it so I donât have to worry about that.
Ask yourself why you stuck to SV over MM in WotLK as you said in your own videos. Or was that a meme statement as well? Itâs hard to keep up. Your opinions sure seem to seamlessly transition between meme and sincerity whenever it suits you.
As far as I can tell youâre the only one here that actually makes videos on the topic so youâre spending a lot more effort than you care to admit.
Yes, letâs just change those last abilities to ranged and weâre good. Seriously. The current SV gameplay but 100% ranged would be a drastic improvement because at least it wouldnât be a weaker Hunter by definition. Or would that suddenly be an MM clone because it uses the same weapon type?
Youâre evading again.
4 Likes
Its not that you cant criticize it, its the fact you wanna criticize a meme.
Depending on the topic really. Your under the impression me making fun of you equals the entire community due to that fragile ego of yours.
âI dont like it so its a bad decisionâ fixed
lol bro seriously sit tf down with this nonsense jfc
Cool so like, grow up already kid
LOL
Yeah, sure thing. Its just funny the issues everyone suddenly has always seemed to be shouted out loud after people like asmongold made a complain on a live stream and now suddenly everyone had an issue with it.
Bicmexwow would like a word with you. You once again, with that massive fragile ego, think you speak for the entire community and have the golden word. You dont, at the end of the day everything you say is just a fragile opinion from someone with no real experience. And btw, I played beta before too. Means nothing here.
you know. You already know you would still act like an 11 year old about it regardless of its popularity.
because it was the least favorite spec and i have never once cared about flavor of the month specs in this game. I have said this in my videos before you should know this since you like to stalk me.
you mean that like 2 minute video I made making fun of you? Oh no you got me there.
Irony. For the third time, whats your discord.
This is true. I do remember all of us poor souls without beta pestering Bepples on this forum to test all three specs â which he did.
Edit: weâd ask him to test out specific abilities, and different rotations. I also read all his reports on the beta forum (before it was unlocked for us).
6 Likes
This is why hes beyond help with his ego.
Itâs actually the fact that any time any of your points comes under scrutiny you declare âI was only jokingâ and run off.
This doesnât take any bias or subjectivity. Itâs an objective matter.
BM and MM have ranged weapons (no one else does) and are fully capable at 0-40 yards. Survival isnât, and the only reason thatâs the case is because Blizzard chased âuniquenessâ.
Removing capabilities from a spec to make it unique is bad design. They even actively reversed a lot of this in Shadowlands (i.e. âdepruningâ). Addition is NOT subtraction.
Only quoting this part to point out youâre evading again. What about what I said was false?
No, itâs not just a reaction to waht people told them. My guild group was in discord watching the Blizzcon 2019 announcements as they came. We all correctly identified the impending problems with the covenant design right there as they were announced. And that doesnât make us super smart or special or anything; tons of people across the WoW online discussion space identified these issues right on day one.
People really like the idea of a game developer boldly trying something new that sounds terrible but then they prove everyone wrong when their idea turns out great in practice. People like an underdog story. But the fact of the matter is usually the issues are apparent from the conceptual stage. I canât think of a single Blizzard decision that looked terrible at first but turned out great. There are a whole lot of the other way around.
What; people have managed to take the spec to high ratings? You realise that not only does this not debunk the idea that Survival is a conceptually bad spec but it actively helps that argument? If the spec is so viable and capable of being pushed to those extremes yet it still canât escape pariah status and is ignored by most of its potential playerbase that means the concept must be especially repulsive.
Remember how like 90% of SV Hunters blame the specâs performance for its unpopularity rather than the fact that itâs melee? Thanks for the help in proving them wrong, I guess.
You werenât actually clear which spec you were talking about. Hereâs a reminder that weâre talking about why you played SV over MM. You talked at length about how much you hated MM, thought it was all Aimed Shot and Multi-Shot spam, and thought SV was different. That necessarily implies you thought SV was appreciably different from MM.
No, âit was about classicâ is not an excuse. You specifically named Explosive Shot and Black Arrow; abilities SV would gain in WotLK and retain until Legion.
You semi-regularly make 10+ min videos of your rambling thoughts on the game including the video on this very topic (Melee Survival Hunter v.s. ranged Survival Hunter) that started all of this. And yes, you made a video and a thread (this very thread in fact) because you apparently thought I would be angry that you would sit as MM in front of a dummy, refrain from casting any of MMâs signature abilities, and say itâs the same as ranged Survival as if that doesnât directly prove my point that MMâs toolkit was not reconcilable with that of ranged SV.
Bruh, if youâre going to spas out at me in Discord messages like Scabber you can do the same thing she did and get my name from the Trueshot Lodge discord.
5 Likes
Its literally obvious when im kidding around. I have no idea why you are so tone deaf to understanding something so obvious. Run off? bruh I never left. Reality is lost to you isnt it?
yeah so your biased.
then how about you shut up and go work for them and change it instead of being a beta on an internet forum for going on 7 years complaining about the same thing?
calling it a mistake, much less one of the biggest in the games history is just biased nonsense. So that in itself is false. Again your opinions are not factual in anyways, its just how you feel not what reality is.
scryer vs aldor seemed to be fine.
except when you dont get your way.
If the spec can get to 3k raiting and complete end game content it means its working as intended. The issue that is so obvious isnt the design, its people like you who have no idea of what your talking about spewing nonsense over it like its the worst thing since WoD. Its just stupidity at this point.
yes you are quoting a classic wow video again that only applied to classic wow era. This is shadowlands.
It is when you refer to a line from a CLASSIC WOW VIDEO you brainless da.
Yes I was referring to what it got later on yes. Good job detective.
pretty sure you started all of this not me but keep intaking that copium mate.
Dude you are so beyond livid right now trying your best to remain cool about everything. Its obvious as hell.
You are the one spazzing out. Give me your discord. You know how to reach me. Im not searching for anything. Be a man.
2 Likes