To be clear, I’m not calling for a rogue nerf. It’s silly to even talk about making class balance changes at this point.
Warriors have very limited solo-viability, but this is fair. If warriors in classic were decent in a solo scenario, their gameplay while properly supported would go from being nigh-unstoppable wrecking balls to being completely uncounterable Demi-gods.
Rogue is just one of those. Average players are carried by what the class can do but aren’t that good when it comes down to it.
Great Rogues (e.g. Perplexity and similar) can carry a whole team. How you say, low skill floor and limitless skill cap.
Ultimately it boils down to the player/class synergy and team play. There was a guild back in the day on the original server I used to play on that was horrible to fight as a pug.
A warrior always had three healers with him and he’d just truck everyone. But the GM team would always balance them out.
I tended to remember this coming in to play Classic Era and there are a TON of warriors due to the hype back then. Needless to say, most warriors in Era are awful.
Certainly a lot of circumstance when this topic comes up.
hell id say most players have lots of room to improve.
Easiest / Strongest class I have played and also one of my fav… Not what you may expect…
Shadow Priest.
Shadow priests were one on the top of my list. It’s another class that got a lot of hype from back then too. There aren’t nearly as much rogues than I remembered from Vanilla playing now in Era.
I see Warriors and Priests in droves. Shockingly, I rarely see Hunters.
You could possibly make the argument that ashbringer is better, if you get some sexy sword spec procs. Of course, mace spec procs are less sexy, but can be game over especially against a rogue.
Overpower is ok, but not great against rogues. Requires going to battle stance which makes you eminently vulnerable to gouge. Also, is one guaranteed crit every 6 seconds at best. 1v1 evasion >>>> overpower.
This is just not true. Need some RNG luck to beat even a decently skilled rogue. Aside from healing classes hunter is probably the most advantaged 1v1 matchup for a warrior.
At my gear level I even have a decent chance of beating a frost mage whose margin of error is basically zero. Any mistake, or RNG unluckiness, and they are in real trouble.
A decently skilled rogue can just stun lock and kite me to death.
In a 2v2 or 3v3 or 5v5 scenario this changes of course. Toss a blessing of freedom on me and a rogue better just hope I’m distracted by some other target.
Good Mage or FC druid can also in Gulch carry a whole team if played well. Heck, Warriors with good healers can effectively do the same; its a little different for every class, but overall in PvP they bring something spicy.
Rogue is excellent at ninja cappin AB and returning flags, they are less excellent in team fights; tho can contribute in removing melee from their casters.
Nah, still not in trouble. Killing warriors as a frost mage is like being a MMA champion beating up 3rd graders.
a good mage can kite rogue allday
Everyone in that duel is popping every CD. It’s whoever messes up first tends to get the win. I’d also only say this is true vs Frost Mages. Fire/Arcane can nuke, but you can vanish a pyro pom pyro.
To be honest I almost forgot about Ahsbringer. That would be very fun.
Certainly not as simple as “stay in Battle and press Overpower”.
Your typical Rogue starts to fall apart if you can mess with what they are trying to set up.
You gotta admit its extremely satisfying to do.
I suspect its because Priest and Warrior are EZ to get raid or dungeon slots as… Hunter not so much because of 1.12 class balance. Earlier patches like 1.9, if they were used I think we would have less warriors, more hunters and more of almost everything but warriors… If it were 1.9, we would see more Enhancement Shaman and less Elemental, etc…
Oh yeah of course lol
How about this. Overpower procs in any stance and you can wait to use it depending on Rage, what the Rogue is doing, what else you could do etc. You basically have one or two globals you could use before the proc/window is gone.
I think Shadow Priest is the PVP class that is slept on. Seen some really scary ones in my day and it is tempting to make a face melter of my own.
Yea I guess that’s true. When I was doing raids, we’d rarely if ever had a hunter with us.
I also chalked it up to their range dead-zoning.
Rogues were designed to do everything you think is ‘cheap’ within the PvP values set forth by Blizzard.
See that right there, blessing of freedom and the warrior is a problem for everybody.
Rogues do not operate like that, they NEED the cooldowns to even compete. In a group setting rogue do not come close to a warriors potential
The point i was making is to effectively dish out that high burst damage, the rogue needs setups and those setups heavily depend on cooldowns.
They are not as powerfully over powered as the OP is claiming. In group pvp they are even more vunerable without cooldowns, where as a warrior without the need of cooldowns becomes an unstoppable juggernaut in group play.
I don’t think that there’s any disagreement that effectively supported in a team v. team battle, warriors are beasts.
One on one though, equally geared and skilled warrior vs rogue is at best a toss up but realistically slight advantage for the rogue.
Perplexity vs Monkeynews
Yes when we are talking very high caliber players, Rogue is probably the best class in PVP. MN does an amazing job though, every Warrior should watch and learn something.