Auras were passives…what they have done to “give us buttons” was take away things we had passively and now choose one. It is dumb and whoever thought that was a good idea needs to have their head examined.
3 Likes
Dang Caperx laying the smack down in here. You should come back to the arena forums and start pvp’ing again. 
As far as Ret goes I am only concerned with it’s performance in PvP, and all I have is the PTR to go off of but the burst looks to be wildly good. My concerns are as follows:
-
Ret being good or bad in PvP is entirely dependent on how the devs tune it.
-
Right now I can line up Seraphim, Execution Sentence, Wings, Final Reck, Judge buff, and badge trinket to get insane burst in about a 5 second window.
-
The problem is this is very telegraphed. It takes about 10 seconds to set up for all of the holy power needed plus for judge to come off cd again, and good players will know what is coming when they see seraphim up or the ES debuff on someone. If you are cc’d for a few seconds here or they use defensive it ruins the whole thing.
-
Even with it being that telegraphed bad players will still get blown up by it and cry and it will get nerfed. When that happens Ret will be back in the same situation it currently is: Strong damage but really no better than a lot of other specs, and no tools to deal with casters/cc.
Anyone reading the current situation any differently? Just feels to me like the entire viability of Ret in PvP rests on some damage tuning and I don’t trust the devs in the slightest to go easy on us. For some reason they are ok letting Destro/Fire Mage/Mastery stacked DH’s blow someone up, but took Ret’s knees out at the start of BfA for doing the same.
3 Likes
Yeah Shadowlands will likely go exactly like BfA did for ret. Very good first season and then bad rest of the xpac
Good news: all three of you are right.
Ret’s rotation and talents are great in terms of feel; the rotation is smoother, buttons feel good to press, and you have real choices in the talent tree.
Relative power is a different story, mostly due to a real lack of mobility in PvP.
3 Likes
This post made me giggle. Yeah I agree with the sentiment we need more to be competitive in groups and for PvP
Bro first off I’m 10/13 on mythic bro so please at least do some research before “enjoy life on shadowlands” besides being plain dumb and ignorant you lack class mate.
Secondly I read all your post fully and you read mines buddy and while is undertones or other classes are overpowered by w.e reason or justification it does not changes the fact:
“Ret is bad compared to other classes”
It doesn’t matter the reason parses are parses, dps is dps. You can’t change that or reason that it’s math bro trying to insult or justify yourself only make look like a fool pal.
So like you many on the feedback/pally forums I’m rising my hands for some holy light so the class gets good on something or at least average good it’s been awhile since ret is not a competitive melee in pve and pvp.
Can it be used? Yes
Can you pull off gladiator or cutting edge? Certainly with alot of time and effort.
Can it be done easier/better/faster with another class? Yes.
What a good amount of people are mad about is the poor performance of bfa ret and the shadowlands “spell unlocks” whichs are passives to auras, very situational consecration, covenant conduits mostly based on rng, terrible covenant abilitys, and covenant overall terrible balance at least for ret(some classes take 1 covenant for mvp raid and m+) we have to make a hard choice as ret and that sir is not fun at all.
The fears: many stated that we will be nerfed with the new burst and the burst can be foreseeable or/and prevented by cc/defensives and we still lack mobility/antimagic something.
For pve the cap hurts a bit mythic+ storming but it’s up to the tank how many mobs pulled at a time so… Ok I guess?
The mobility vs defensives:
Still have to make a choice we have to make bubble cd low and shield of vengance or… Take 2 charges of devine steed, which sadly the steed choice is a dps gain and less walking time between pulls/boss phases in pvp we have to make a hard choice to chase or have consistent mobility our hand of hindarence helps but… The choice is still hard specially in matchups were eye for and eye can be a huge advantage.
Idk man overall I deep down wish everyone is wrong and ret will be great on shadowlands but honestly I don’t think it will be happen.
2 Likes
Man this thread has grown over 21 days.
Sorry for you Ret mains still dealing with it. I’ve been prepping my Protection spec & enjoying it on PTR.
Idk I did some theory crafting with Notae this morning, ret might be a lot better in pvp than other people think
Btw ret has almost always been harder to push glad with since the dawn of time.
2 Likes
That’s the problem. Your mentality is “well this is how is how it’s always been, this is how it has to be”.
Ret has been hard to play to glad BECAUSE of the lack of quality of life abilities other classes have.
Look at any other classes mobility skills, they have 1 button that does what our two buttons do, and those two buttons we press have neon signs on them that say “HEY STOP THIS GUY”.
All our CD are telegraphed to the other players really obviously. Which is a huge issue in of itself. Set that aside and we need two globals to do what other classes do in 1.
It’s laughable.
4 Likes
Even when ret had decent mobility it wasn’t ez mode to glad really, in fact the easiest ssns to get percent based gladiator were in legion as a ret. (I would make the argument that BfA has made it the easiest for any class to get baseline gladiator).
Personally I like playing a class that has some challenge and a high skill cap to beat opponents. While yeah I would like tools, I’m not really in favor of giving ret everything.
1 Like
We get penalized for being a hybrid.(which is ridiculous at this stage of the game, due to the fact other classes might not have the ability to heal team mates but have FAR better means of peeling or protecting their teams.)
We have poor defensive due to either the long cooldown or due to scaling in pvp.
Our mobility skills or clunky and easily controlled or dispelled.
Burst CD’s are obvious, controllable, and often times line up with healer and dps Defensive CD’s a little too well.
As a melee we lack the pressure a DK or Warrior can bring with their abilities making us undesirable to team.
We don’t gain as much health as other classes from stamina for christ sake.
I see DH’s in worse gear than me(my gear isn’t great) who have 60-70k more heath than I do. How is someone supposed to be competitive like that?
You can argue that skill ceiling is higher, but it’s not fun to work hard get good at a class and see someone who just bought the game and watched 1 youtube video being just as competitive. It sucks.
Ret paladins aren’t asking for “Everything” right now. We are asking to be competitive E.I. given the same love other classes are getting. The current state of ret we are second class citizens.
Edited to add last point, sorry if I’m rambling, just a little salty about this and that I didn’t get a 3080 this morning. 
1 Like
Not confirmed, blizzard has stated they have moved away from the hybrid tax.
Not because of scaling.
Unbound freedom helps immensely with mobility being purged. Horse is bad but will not go away for the foreseeable future. Night Fae covenant ability helps mobility as does Final Verdict legendary as troll as that sounds.
Most burst cds are 2 or 3 min in SL so this isn’t very good as an example. Most burst is very controllable and has counterplay, and darksoul can literally be purged now so.
False, ret burst pressure is huge, and with changes to MM cupid looks to be very strong.
Not really a good example at all. They also have less armor than us so in theory take more damage (which they do they just have passive leech and that is an entirely different discussion.)
Ret looks to be competitive and is competitive right now. We have received a lot more love than other classes. We aren’t spriest or sub rogue tier though. And those two specs very obviously still need tuning.
1 Like
-
saying blizzard has moved away from hybrid tax doesn’t mean our class design doesn’t suffer from it because they haven’t made any changes to improve us after “moving away from” that point of thought.
-
SoV scales due to dampening so yes, it is because of scaling in pvp.
-
Saying an ability is good because we have to make it work by taking a choice away from us somewhere else isn’t good design. you’re arguing we’re fine cause we have X when other classes get the working ability baseline and then an edge with the unused pvp talent.
-
Our burst is great, but it’s bright and flashy while other classes might not be so noticeable.
-
This is again about being competitive, and having 1 niche comp doesn’t make us that.
-
Demon hunters also have better defensives on much shorter CD’s so why do they need so much health? Other plate classes have much more health that us as well. It comes from back when we were hybrid taxed for having self heals while other dps didn’t. Once again, we are still suffering from that poor design.
-
1 comp where -some- rets might be able to get lucky and find partners willing to forgo other easier comps to carry us isn’t competitive.
2 Likes
Our WoD design was actually pretty moved away from that. They just introduced SoV as a meme, having hpalla and divine shield is completely fine defensively.
Yes sov is bad, ret has never been a dampener class though nor should it ever be. Wanting to go into dampening is bad and bad design.
Not really no. No other class has an ability like an undispellable freedom with 0 counterplay. A utility pvp talent is completely ok. Because we actually don’t need it to every matchup. [quote=“Hoodlumz-kiljaeden, post:113, topic:624023”]
Our burst is great, but it’s bright and flashy while other classes might not be so noticeable.
[/quote]
Every burst is noticeable. This is solely a player issue.
Are you saying feral rn isn’t competitive because jungle is a niche comp and “ferals only comp” even though it’s an S tier comp?
Ret will also have other comps lol, ret/warrior, ret/lock, ret/rogue, and ret/dk aren’t going away.
You aware that dh is getting heavily nerfed in SL right? It’s also not really a hybrid tax, it’s more of an immunity tax. We have bubble, a hard stop to everything for 8 seconds. Mage is also squishier than other cloth classes mostly for this reason (mage is also stupid tanky far more than they should be but also a different discussion)
Rets 1 aren’t getting carried by partners lol. We have more than one comp, thinking otherwise is the 1800 capped player coming out, as you simply don’t have the knowledge base here.
If people wanted to just go and do the easiest comp for rating, literally everyone would be playing mage lock rn, and while it is a popular comp rn it’s certainly not every game.
1 Like
I’m not going to continue to argue with you, you aren’t convincing me because you are arguing the opinions and points of view of someone content with being a second class spec.
The reason so many of us are angry is that we don’t have BASIC quality of life improvements other classes have. That is a fact, not an opinion. Overall if you look at all the hybrid DPS classes, we are all suffering one way or another from Blizzards lack care for our design.
We aren’t asking for much and people like you are partial reasoning behind not fixing the problems. Blizzard sees what you’re saying and thinks “must not be that bad since this random guy is completely okay with not having even playing fields”. That being said do us all a favor and bugger off, this thread is for people wanting to make the spec better instead of suffering through lackluster class design and developer afterthought.
2 Likes
Okay you’re cringe and don’t understand anything I’m saying lol. As Caperx has stated, have fun being an lfr tier player idk
Ret at least as ssn 1 goes isn’t a “second class spec” sure it won’t be S tier but if you actually want ret to be S tier you are beyond delusional.
1 Like
does not feel good at all. Paladin utility was nerfed. plain and simple
You’re the one with no comprehension of what a lot of people are wanting. Small changes to the class that will make us better as a whole. You keep saying “we’ll be fine in s1” but once they nerf our damage as they did after BFA season 1 alot of us will be back to hoping for that 1 okay comp.
Don’t tell me I don’t understand you, cause I do, I’m saying you’re short-sighted and that is the problem. Some people don’t have the resources or time to invest that others do. so we can grind M+ all day to stay competitive, or have team mates/guildmates that will play the right comp with us.
Other classes don’t have that problem cause they aren’t as gear dependent or have a lot of possible comps to play so they don’t need to worry about a specific set up.
I didn’t once say I wanted ret to be “S tier”. I just want ret to not feel like a redheaded step child, which it does. I’ve been playing it a long time, gotten really tired of the same song and dance.
2 Likes
You do realize that SL ret will be better than BfA ret. Once again as troll as this sounds, covenants and legendaries help a lot. Nobody likes borrowed power but as of rn it’s fine.
Every class is extremely gear dependent, you’re completely fried if you think otherwise.
As stated before we will have more than 1 comp, please stop being a cringe dad gamer who doesn’t seek to improve his gameplay and want everything handed to him on a silver platter.
1 Like
lol!? What did Daddy do to you to bash him like that?
1 Like